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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">1) Re: Ur. Pts. 1)
& 2): Allow me to speculate that the intention is a bit
more convoluted than you can imagine.</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">2) Re: Ur. Pts. 3)
& 4): Yes, I should wait for you to have a chance to
review the EzIP documents.</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">3) Re: Ur. Pts. 5)
& 6) "This draft of the block 240/4 release I will have to
change all my class slides ... ": I hope our work as a
"back to the future" event is realistic, not just for
superficial fun.</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Await for your critiques
after you have a chance to review our work in more depth.</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Regards,</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Abe (2022-01-24 14:46
EST)</font><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-01-24 08:49, Henri Alves de
Godoy wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALRKgT53P_OvEGbQdrz_d6f36ESubMfGAnerHko_xgKRi12tag@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi, Abe</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Follow the comments below .....<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sáb., 22 de jan. de 2022
às 17:28, Abraham Y. Chen <<a
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aychen@avinta.com</a>>
escreveu:<br>
</div>
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<div>
<div><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">1) Re: Ur. Pt. 1): Thanks for
your advice. It was not clear when I signed up to the
mailing list. I am sending this MSG directly to <a
href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lacnog@lacnic.net</a>
as you stated, with Cc: back to us as check points.
What I am sharing is intended for the well being of
the general public. There is no privacy concerns. So,
I am including the entire thread below, starting from
your initial post. Let's see what may happen. </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">2) Re: Ur. Pt. 2): Thanks for
the IPv4 auction market data. Now that you have
brought this topic up, do you see how any developing
regions can outbid big players such as Amazon, etc.?
Then, what is the consequence of this trend?</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I haven't noticed a fear or a drop in the purchase or
transfer of IPv4 due to the increase in cost. The movement
was the opposite and many companies are not worrying about
cost, they are increasingly buying IPv4, because that's what
they know how to do, add more IPv4 blocks to their CGNAT.
It's easier for them than investing in IPv6. I would say a
suicidal move. Regarding Amazon's appropriation of large
IPv4 blocks, I don't know what it will do, it's a gold mine
and maybe the right thing would be to return the region.
:-)) But I don't see any indication that it will do that.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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<div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">3) Re: Ur. Pt. 3): Thanks for
the interview of Vint Cerf. I am not at a position to
ask questions. I will continue my learning from
whatever becomes public.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">4) Re: Ur. Pt. 4) "... Rapid
host identification in case of an audit or police
investigation. ...": Actually, our proposal, EzIP
may be viewed as an address resource replacement for
the CG-NAT while maintaining its current position in
the Internet architecture. So, there is no hardware
change for the IAP (Internet Access Provider --- as
opposed to ICP - Internet Content Provider. I have
found using these as subsets of the commonly known ISP
can minimize the confusions.). Then, the disciplined
address administration proposed by EzIP will make the
host identification goal none-issue because it is
inherent.</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Abe, I don't have information and I haven't read about
the subject to give an opinion on EzIP.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div>
<div><font size="4"> <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">5) Re: Ur. Pt. 5) " I am Brazilian
and I speak little English and Spanish. ": So,
your native tongue is Portuguese? Understood.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">6) Re: Ur. Pt. 5) " I didn't know
about this draft. ... I will read with great care and
attention. ... is it worth investing in any study or
change in IPv4, a protocol that is no longer
standard? ": This is a very intertwined
situation. Allow me to be brief. Our EzIP work started
as a curiosity about IPv4 address pool exhaustion. By
the time we came to something chewable, the Internet
community had decided to phase out IPv4. We were not
informed of the Working Group SunSet4, except allowed
to post semi-annual updates of our progress to IETF.
So, you would not have known the existence of such
IETF drafts unless you were specifically searching
with relevant keywords. What is interesting is that
recently, I began to hear certain opinions such as "<span>IPv6
is still seen as an option, rather than an urgent
necessity."</span> Also, there is a group of
Internet veterans who have been working on the "IPv4
Unicast Extensions Project" that tries to extend the
IPv4 in certain areas. One of them overlaps with EzIP.
You may want to have a look at it (see URL below). The
key questions at the moment would be; Is there
anything that only IPv6 can do? And, </font><font
size="4"><font size="4">would it be worthwhile, </font></font><font
size="4">if finite effort in IPv4 is required to
revamp the Internet? <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> <a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-240-01"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-240-01</a></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">I look forward to your thoughts,</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This draft of the block 240/4 release I will have to
change all my class slides and let all my students know that
something historic has changed! :-))<br>
<br>
Leaving the jokes behind, I imagine that these millions of
IPv4 addresses that would be more available do not solve the
problem of scarcity. Who cares about this? Or would it just
be to accomplish a historic feat or correct a past mistake
as well? I know that changes and mistakes happen. Imagine
the work of changing software, firmware, acls, firewalls. Is
it worth the effort ?<br>
<br>
About your question "The key questions at the moment would
be; Is there anything that only IPv6 can do?"<br>
<br>
The question is very good and makes our mind work and heat
up.<br>
<br>
I would start by answering as being the only protocol so far
that can achieve an assignment to a large amount of
equipment (IoT, 5G). In addition to the equipment and
routers, they worked much better and faster in delivering
packages. I would say that we have the opportunity to return
and revive the concept of the early days of the Internet
which is its end-to-end connection.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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<div>
<div><font size="4"> </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Abe (2022-01-22 15:27 EST)<br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 2022-01-22 11:21, Henri Alves de Godoy wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi, Abraham !!!
The comments are below ,
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
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style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 2022-01-21 23:12,
Abraham Y. Chen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4">Hi,
Henri:</font></div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4">0) My
apologies for mistyping
your name. One of our
team member's English
name is Henry. So, I
just automatically typed
such to address you.<br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No problem,
no worries. It's very common
for this to happen since I was
a child. ;-) <span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> </font>
</div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4">1) I
am glad that you
responded, because I did
not receive the
broadcast copy of my MSG
thru LACNOG-Request. I
was beginning to wonder
whether it was properly
transmitted? Since you
appear to be replying my
MSG in private mode, did
you receive a second
copy of my previous MSG?
Please keep an eye on
this one and let me
know, as well.<br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your
messages are not being sent to
the general mailing list, you
must send them directly to <a
href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lacnog@lacnic.net</a>
. I didn't want to forward
your comments to the list so
as not to commit any privacy
issues.<span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> </font></div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4">2)
Re: Ur Pt. 1): Many
things can be quite
deceiving if one is
looking at only one
angle at a time. For
example, do you know
Amazon has been hoarding
a lot of surplus IPv4
addresses (see URL
below)? If you surf
around the web about
this topic, you will
find more similar
activities by other big
players. Why do US based
IPv6 promoters keep on
buying IPv4 addresses
that are desperately
needed by developing
regions?<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> <a
href="https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why</a></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, Amazon
has a large stock of IPv4. I
commented in a post once about
this problem or a centralizing
strategy. They continue to buy
IPv4 because it's an
ever-growing market. Money
issue. See <a
href="https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/</a><span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">3)
Re: Ur. Pt. 2):
Again, we need to look
at an issue from
multiple perspectives.
For example, the
starting point is why
was IPv6 designed
without backward
compatibility to IPv4?
I came through the
traditional
communications
industries where such
consideration was the
first rule that a
planner must follow, no
ifs nor buts. As a
result, telephone
subscribers never knew
when a Telco was
upgrading the equipment,
except when one makes a
phone call around
midnight and such
activities happened to
be scheduled.</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Excellent
question. We should ask Sir
Vin Cerf :-))). Recently in
an interview, he admitted
several mistakes from the past
with IPv4 such as encryption
and a small addressing field
at the time.<span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a
href="https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos</a><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">4)
Next, do you know that
CG-NAT was developed to
support web search,
video streaming, gaming,
etc. that demand high
volume and fast
response? Who are behind
these? In essence, these
high performance
services pushed the need
for server-client model
with </font><font
size="4"><font size="4">data-centers
distributed to be
close to high usage
regions. Since these
operators do not see
any harm from IPv4
based CG-NAT, why
should they abandon
their investment to go
IPv6?</font></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In my
opinion, thinking that there
is no harm in CGNAT in IPv4 is
thought towards destruction. I
would not accept or hire an
ISP that offered me an old and
outdated protocol. I would
change ISP. That's what I say
to everyone, including my
students. In addition to the
eternal IPv4 blocks when we
talk about online games (PSN)
when using CGNAT. Changing an
ISP's mindset is difficult and
pointing out the wrong
investment he is making too.
Rapid host identification in
case of an audit or police
investigation. Many
advantages.<span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"><font
size="4"> </font> </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">5)
Since English is already
my second language, I
could not read the
beginning part of your
original MSG which I
believed to be in
Spanish, but only
responded to the second
part. I now realize that
you were referring to a
fresh article on
theRegister that I had
already read the APNIC
blog that it cited.
Allow me to make a
disclaimer so that our
discussion will be
meaningful and
transparent. That is</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4">
A. I lead a team that
has done further work
along the vein of the
over thirteen years old
IETF Draft by APNIC
mentioned by their
current blog. You will
find our latest IETF
Draft at:</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> <a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space</a></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> B.
Also, our work has been
granted US Pat. No.
11,159,425.</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am
Brazilian and I speak little
English and Spanish. I didn't
know about this draft. Thanks
for sharing and I will read
with great care and attention.
Excellent work and
congratulations on the patent
acquired. Sorry for the
question, is it worth
investing in any study or
change in IPv4, a protocol
that is no longer standard?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">
During the above study,
we navigated through a
lot of uncharted
territories and waters
to formulate our
solution. So, please
pardon my analyses and
opinions that may not
conform to current
general views. <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Different
points of view are important
and I appreciate that very
much. Thanks for sharing.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best
Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Henri.</p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Abe
(2022-01-21 23:11 EST)<br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 2022-01-21 14:54,
Henri Alves de Godoy
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Abraham,
thanks for replying
and for the
comments.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Yes, the
interview really
does not classify
into sub-categories.
We know that the
biggest ones like
Google, AWS,
Facebook, already
have ipv6-only
datacenter.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2) Yes, let's say
that since the ISP
made an investment
with CGNAT that in
my opinion made a
"wrong decision", it
is clear that he
will want to
protect. But the
adoption of IPv6
goes beyond a simple
new protocol. Its
adoption is
strategic for its
survival as well.
Currently delivering
CGNAT with IPv6
(dual stak) is the
most common
approach. Investing
in IPv4 and buying
more IPv4 address
blocks has no
future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Henri.</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">Em
sex., 21 de jan. de
2022 às 12:29, Abraham
Y. Chen <<a
href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">aychen@avinta.com</a>> escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px
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solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font size="4">Hi,
Henri:</font></p>
<p><font size="4">1)
Perhaps if you
could make a
distinction
between who are
behind the IPv6
and who are
behind the IPv4
CG-NAT, the
subject will
become clearer.
That is, they
are both Big,
but in separate
sub-categories
of Tech
companies.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">2)
There is nothing
wrong about
protecting the
investment for
the sake of at
least including
the consumer.
Pushing new
technology from
the perspective
of the innovator
is
narrow-minded.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Abe
(2022-01-21
10:29 EST)</font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Message: 1 </p>
<blockquote
type="cite">
<pre>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:24:22 -0300
From: Henri Alves de Godoy <a href="mailto:henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br></a>
To: Latin America and Caribbean Region Network Operators Group
<a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><lacnog@lacnic.net></a>
Subject: [lacnog] Big Tech's use of carrier-grade NAT is holding back
internet innovation
Message-ID:
<a href="mailto:CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Buenos dias !
Compartilhando a entrevista sobre preocupações sobre a adoção do IPv6
<a href="https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/</a>
Chamam a atenção os destaques:
"Carriers and Big Tech are happily continuing to use network address
translation (NAT) and IPv4 to protect their investments......."
"We are witnessing an industry that is no longer using technical
innovation, openness, and diversification as its primary means of
propulsion"
Saludos a todos !
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