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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Hi, Fernando:</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"> If you regard the
240/4 netblock proposed by the below IETF Draft as a reusable
static address pool (per IPv4 public address) replacement to the
dynamic 100.64.0.0/10 netblock currently used by CG-NAT, I
believe that you will arrive at affirmative answers to your
questions.<br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space</a></font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Regards,</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><font size="4">Abe (2022-01-24 16:23
EST)<br>
</font></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-01-24 09:57, <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:lacnog-request@lacnic.net">lacnog-request@lacnic.net</a>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:mailman.79.1643036262.176218.lacnog@lacnic.net">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Envíe los mensajes para la lista LACNOG a
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Asuntos del día:
1. Re: Big Tech's use of carrier-grade NAT is holding back
internet innovation Re: 202201221137.AYC (Fernando Frediani)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 11:57:35 -0300
From: Fernando Frediani <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fhfrediani@gmail.com"><fhfrediani@gmail.com></a>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net">lacnog@lacnic.net</a>
Subject: Re: [lacnog] Big Tech's use of carrier-grade NAT is holding
back internet innovation Re: 202201221137.AYC
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:2061d88a-6f63-0b0a-af7b-6cecb446dba3@gmail.com"><2061d88a-6f63-0b0a-af7b-6cecb446dba3@gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Em 24/01/2022 10:49, Henri Alves de Godoy escreveu:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""><clip>
About your question "The key questions at the moment would be; Is
there anything that only IPv6 can do?"
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Yes there are several like:
- Avoid any type of NAT and CGNAT which imposes a significant cost to
Broadband ISPs for Capex and Open costs
- Improve end-user experience not having to force them to go via a
bottlenecked CGNAT equipment.
- Move Internet forward by restoring end to end communication as it
should be, etc
Fernando
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Abe (2022-01-22 15:27 EST)
On 2022-01-22 11:21, Henri Alves de Godoy wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Hi, Abraham !!! The comments are below ,
On 2022-01-21 23:12, Abraham Y. Chen wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Hi, Henri:
0) My apologies for mistyping your name. One of our team
member's English name is Henry. So, I just automatically
typed such to address you.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> No problem, no worries. It's very common for this to happen since
I was a child. ;-)
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> 1) I am glad that you responded, because I did not
receive the broadcast copy of my MSG thru LACNOG-Request. I
was beginning to wonder whether it was properly transmitted?
Since you appear to be replying my MSG in private mode, did
you receive a second copy of my previous MSG? Please keep an
eye on this one and let me know, as well.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Your messages are not being sent to the general mailing list, you
must send them directly to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net">lacnog@lacnic.net</a> . I didn't want to
forward your comments to the list so as not to commit any privacy
issues.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> 2) Re: Ur Pt. 1): Many things can be quite deceiving if
one is looking at only one angle at a time. For example, do
you know Amazon has been hoarding a lot of surplus IPv4
addresses (see URL below)? If you surf around the web about
this topic, you will find more similar activities by other
big players. Why do US based IPv6 promoters keep on buying
IPv4 addresses that are desperately needed by developing
regions?
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why">https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Yes, Amazon has a large stock of IPv4. I commented in a post once
about this problem or a centralizing strategy. They continue to
buy IPv4 because it's an ever-growing market. Money issue. See
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/">https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> 3) Re: Ur. Pt. 2): Again, we need to look at an issue from
multiple perspectives. For example, the starting point is
why was IPv6 designed without backward compatibility to
IPv4? I came through the traditional communications
industries where such consideration was the first rule that
a planner must follow, no ifs nor buts. As a result,
telephone subscribers never knew when a Telco was upgrading
the equipment, except when one makes a phone call around
midnight and such activities happened to be scheduled.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Excellent question. We should ask Sir Vin Cerf :-))). Recently
in an interview, he admitted several mistakes from the past with
IPv4 such as encryption and a small addressing field at the time.
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos">https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> 4) Next, do you know that CG-NAT was developed to support
web search, video streaming, gaming, etc. that demand high
volume and fast response? Who are behind these? In essence,
these high performance services pushed the need for
server-client model with data-centers distributed to be
close to high usage regions. Since these operators do not
see any harm from IPv4 based CG-NAT, why should they abandon
their investment to go IPv6?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> In my opinion, thinking that there is no harm in CGNAT in IPv4 is
thought towards destruction. I would not accept or hire an ISP
that offered me an old and outdated protocol. I would change ISP.
That's what I say to everyone, including my students. In addition
to the eternal IPv4 blocks when we talk about online games (PSN)
when using CGNAT. Changing an ISP's mindset is difficult and
pointing out the wrong investment he is making too. Rapid host
identification in case of an audit or police investigation. Many
advantages.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> 5) Since English is already my second language, I could not
read the beginning part of your original MSG which I
believed to be in Spanish, but only responded to the second
part. I now realize that you were referring to a fresh
article on theRegister that I had already read the APNIC
blog that it cited. Allow me to make a disclaimer so that
our discussion will be meaningful and transparent. That is
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> A. I lead a team that has done further work along the
vein of the over thirteen years old IETF Draft by APNIC
mentioned by their current blog. You will find our latest
IETF Draft at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space</a>
B. Also, our work has been granted US Pat. No. 11,159,425.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> I am Brazilian and I speak little English and Spanish. I didn't
know about this draft. Thanks for sharing and I will read with
great care and attention. Excellent work and congratulations on
the patent acquired. Sorry for the question, is it worth
investing in any study or change in IPv4, a protocol that is no
longer standard?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> During the above study, we navigated through a lot of
uncharted territories and waters to formulate our solution.
So, please pardon my analyses and opinions that may not
conform to current general views.
Regards,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Different points of view are important and I appreciate that very
much. Thanks for sharing.
Best Regards,
Henri.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Abe (2022-01-21 23:11 EST)
On 2022-01-21 14:54, Henri Alves de Godoy wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Hi Abraham, thanks for replying and for the comments.
1) Yes, the interview really does not classify into
sub-categories. We know that the biggest ones like Google,
AWS, Facebook, already have ipv6-only datacenter.
2) Yes, let's say that since the ISP made an investment
with CGNAT that in my opinion made a "wrong decision", it
is clear that he will want to protect. But the adoption of
IPv6 goes beyond a simple new protocol. Its adoption is
strategic for its survival as well. Currently delivering
CGNAT with IPv6 (dual stak) is the most common approach.
Investing in IPv4 and buying more IPv4 address blocks has
no future.
Regards,
Henri.
Em sex., 21 de jan. de 2022 às 12:29, Abraham Y. Chen
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com"><aychen@avinta.com></a> escreveu:
Hi, Henri:
1) Perhaps if you could make a distinction between who
are behind the IPv6 and who are behind the IPv4 CG-NAT,
the subject will become clearer. That is, they are both
Big, but in separate sub-categories of Tech companies.
2) There is nothing wrong about protecting the
investment for the sake of at least including the
consumer. Pushing new technology from the perspective
of the innovator is narrow-minded.
Regards,
Abe (2022-01-21 10:29 EST)
Message: 1
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:24:22 -0300
From: Henri Alves de Godoy<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br"><henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br"><mailto:henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br></a>
To: Latin America and Caribbean Region Network Operators Group
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net"><lacnog@lacnic.net></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net"><mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net></a>
Subject: [lacnog] Big Tech's use of carrier-grade NAT is holding back
internet innovation
Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com"><CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com"><mailto:CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Buenos dias !
Compartilhando a entrevista sobre preocupações sobre a adoção do IPv6
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/">https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/</a>
Chamam a atenção os destaques:
"Carriers and Big Tech are happily continuing to use network address
translation (NAT) and IPv4 to protect their investments......."
"We are witnessing an industry that is no longer using technical
innovation, openness, and diversification as its primary means of
propulsion"
Saludos a todos !
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> --
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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</pre>
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