<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi, Abe</div><div><br></div><div>Follow the comments below .....<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sáb., 22 de jan. de 2022 às 17:28, Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">aychen@avinta.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">1) Re: Ur. Pt. 1):
Thanks for your advice. It was not clear when I signed up to the
mailing list. I am sending this MSG directly to <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank">lacnog@lacnic.net</a>
as you stated, with Cc: back to us as check points. What I am
sharing is intended for the well being of the general public.
There is no privacy concerns. So, I am including the entire
thread below, starting from your initial post. Let's see what
may happen. </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">2) Re: Ur. Pt. 2):
Thanks for the IPv4 auction market data. Now that you have
brought this topic up, do you see how any developing regions can
outbid big players such as Amazon, etc.? Then, what is the
consequence of this trend?</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I haven't noticed a fear or a drop in the purchase or transfer of IPv4 due to the increase in cost. The movement was the opposite and many companies are not worrying about cost, they are increasingly buying IPv4, because that's what they know how to do, add more IPv4 blocks to their CGNAT. It's easier for them than investing in IPv6. I would say a suicidal move. Regarding Amazon's appropriation of large IPv4 blocks, I don't know what it will do, it's a gold mine and maybe the right thing would be to return the region. :-)) But I don't see any indication that it will do that.<br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">3) Re: Ur. Pt. 3):
Thanks for the interview of Vint Cerf. I am not at a position to
ask questions. I will continue my learning from whatever becomes
public.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">4) Re: Ur. Pt. 4)
"... Rapid host
identification in case of an audit or police investigation.
...": Actually, our proposal, EzIP may be viewed as an
address resource replacement for the CG-NAT while maintaining
its current position in the Internet architecture. So, there is
no hardware change for the IAP (Internet Access Provider --- as
opposed to ICP - Internet Content Provider. I have found using
these as subsets of the commonly known ISP can minimize the
confusions.). Then, the disciplined address administration
proposed by EzIP will make the host identification goal
none-issue because it is inherent.</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Abe, I don't have information and I haven't read about the subject to give an opinion on EzIP.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><font size="4"> <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">5) Re: Ur. Pt. 5) " I
am Brazilian and I speak little English and Spanish. ":
So, your native tongue is Portuguese? Understood.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">6) Re: Ur. Pt. 5) " I
didn't know about this draft. ... I
will read with great care and attention. ... is it worth
investing in any study
or change in IPv4, a protocol that is no longer standard? ":
This is a very intertwined situation. Allow me to be brief.
Our EzIP work started as a curiosity about IPv4 address pool
exhaustion. By the time we came to something chewable, the
Internet community had decided to phase out IPv4. We were not
informed of the Working Group SunSet4, except allowed to post
semi-annual updates of our progress to IETF. So, you would not
have known the existence of such IETF drafts unless you were
specifically searching with relevant keywords. What is
interesting is that recently, I began to hear certain opinions
such as "<span>IPv6 is still seen as an option, rather than an urgent
necessity."</span> Also, there is a group of Internet veterans
who have been working on the "IPv4 Unicast Extensions Project"
that tries to extend the IPv4 in certain areas. One of them
overlaps with EzIP. You may want to have a look at it (see URL
below). The key questions at the moment would be; Is there
anything that only IPv6 can do? And, </font><font size="4"><font size="4">would it be worthwhile, </font></font><font size="4">if
finite effort in IPv4 is required to revamp the Internet? <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-240-01" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-240-01</a></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">I look forward to your
thoughts,</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This draft of the block 240/4 release I will have to change all my class slides and let all my students know that something historic has changed! :-))<br><br>Leaving the jokes behind, I imagine that these millions of IPv4 addresses that would be more available do not solve the problem of scarcity. Who cares about this? Or would it just be to accomplish a historic feat or correct a past mistake as well? I know that changes and mistakes happen. Imagine the work of changing software, firmware, acls, firewalls. Is it worth the effort ?<br><br>About your question "The key questions at the moment would be; Is there anything that only IPv6 can do?"<br><br>The question is very good and makes our mind work and heat up.<br><br>I would start by answering as being the only protocol so far that can achieve an assignment to a large amount of equipment (IoT, 5G). In addition to the equipment and routers, they worked much better and faster in delivering packages. I would say that we have the opportunity to return and revive the concept of the early days of the Internet which is its end-to-end connection.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><font size="4">
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Abe (2022-01-22 15:27
EST)<br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 2022-01-22 11:21, Henri Alves de
Godoy wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi, Abraham !!! The comments
are below ,
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 2022-01-21 23:12, Abraham Y.
Chen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4">0) My apologies
for mistyping your name. One of
our team member's English name is
Henry. So, I just automatically
typed such to address you.<br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No problem, no
worries. It's very common for this to
happen
since I was a child. ;-) <span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> </font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4">1) I am glad
that you responded, because I did
not receive the broadcast copy of
my MSG thru LACNOG-Request. I was
beginning to wonder whether it was
properly transmitted? Since you
appear to be replying my MSG in
private mode, did you receive a
second copy of my previous MSG?
Please keep an eye on this one and
let me know, as well.<br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your messages are not
being sent to the general mailing
list, you must send them directly to <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank">lacnog@lacnic.net</a>
. I didn't want to
forward your comments to the list so as
not to commit any privacy issues.<span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> </font></div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><font size="4">2) Re: Ur Pt.
1): Many things can be quite
deceiving if one is looking at
only one angle at a time. For
example, do you know Amazon has
been hoarding a lot of surplus
IPv4 addresses (see URL below)? If
you surf around the web about this
topic, you will find more similar
activities by other big players.
Why do US based IPv6 promoters
keep on buying IPv4 addresses that
are desperately needed by
developing regions?<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> <a href="https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why" target="_blank">https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why</a></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, Amazon has a
large stock of IPv4. I commented in a
post
once about this problem or a
centralizing strategy. They continue to
buy IPv4
because it's an ever-growing market.
Money issue. See
<a href="https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/" target="_blank">https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/</a><span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">3) Re: Ur. Pt.
2): Again, we need to look at
an issue from multiple
perspectives. For example, the
starting point is why was IPv6
designed without backward
compatibility to IPv4? I came
through the traditional
communications industries where
such consideration was the first
rule that a planner must follow,
no ifs nor buts. As a result,
telephone subscribers never knew
when a Telco was upgrading the
equipment, except when one makes a
phone call around midnight and
such activities happened to be
scheduled.</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Excellent question.
We should ask Sir Vin Cerf :-))).
Recently in
an interview, he admitted several
mistakes from the past with IPv4 such as
encryption and a small addressing field
at the time.<span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos" target="_blank">https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos</a><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">4) Next, do you
know that CG-NAT was developed to
support web search, video
streaming, gaming, etc. that
demand high volume and fast
response? Who are behind these? In
essence, these high performance
services pushed the need for
server-client model with </font><font size="4"><font size="4">data-centers
distributed to be close to high
usage regions. Since these
operators do not see any harm
from IPv4 based CG-NAT, why
should they abandon their
investment to go IPv6?</font></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In my opinion,
thinking that there is no harm in CGNAT
in
IPv4 is thought towards destruction. I
would not accept or hire an ISP that
offered me an old and outdated protocol.
I would change ISP. That's what I say
to everyone, including my students. In
addition to the eternal IPv4 blocks when
we
talk about online games (PSN) when using
CGNAT. Changing an ISP's mindset is
difficult and pointing out the wrong
investment he is making too. Rapid host
identification in case of an audit or
police investigation. Many advantages.<span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"><font size="4"> </font>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">5) Since
English is already my second
language, I could not read the
beginning part of your original
MSG which I believed to be in
Spanish, but only responded to the
second part. I now realize that
you were referring to a fresh
article on theRegister that I had
already read the APNIC blog that
it cited. Allow me to make a
disclaimer so that our discussion
will be meaningful and
transparent. That is</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> A. I lead a
team that has done further work
along the vein of the over
thirteen years old IETF Draft by
APNIC mentioned by their current
blog. You will find our latest
IETF Draft at:</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> <a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space</a></font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> B. Also, our
work has been granted US Pat. No.
11,159,425.</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am Brazilian and I
speak little English and Spanish. I
didn't know about this draft. Thanks for
sharing and I
will read with great care and attention.
Excellent work and congratulations on
the patent acquired. Sorry for the
question, is it worth investing in any
study
or change in IPv4, a protocol that is no
longer standard?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span></span></p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"> During the
above study, we navigated through
a lot of uncharted territories and
waters to formulate our solution.
So, please pardon my analyses and
opinions that may not conform to
current general views. <br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Regards,</font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Different points of
view are important and I appreciate that
very much. Thanks for sharing.<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best Regards,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Henri.</p>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font size="4"> </font></div>
<div><font size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Abe (2022-01-21
23:11 EST)<br>
</font> </div>
<font size="4"> </font>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On 2022-01-21 14:54, Henri Alves
de Godoy wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Abraham, thanks for
replying and for the comments.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Yes, the interview
really does not classify into
sub-categories. We know that
the biggest ones like Google,
AWS, Facebook, already have
ipv6-only datacenter.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>2) Yes, let's say that
since the ISP made an
investment with CGNAT that in
my opinion made a "wrong
decision", it is clear that he
will want to protect. But the
adoption of IPv6 goes beyond a
simple new protocol. Its
adoption is strategic for its
survival as well. Currently
delivering CGNAT with IPv6
(dual stak) is the most common
approach. Investing in IPv4
and buying more IPv4 address
blocks has no future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Henri.</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em
sex., 21 de jan. de 2022 às
12:29, Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com" target="_blank">aychen@avinta.com</a>>
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></p>
<p><font size="4">1)
Perhaps if you could make
a distinction between who
are behind the IPv6 and
who are behind the IPv4
CG-NAT, the subject will
become clearer. That is,
they are both Big, but in
separate sub-categories of
Tech companies.</font></p>
<p><font size="4">2) There
is nothing wrong about
protecting the investment
for the sake of at least
including the consumer.
Pushing new technology
from the perspective of
the innovator is
narrow-minded.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Regards,</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="4">Abe
(2022-01-21 10:29 EST)</font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Message: 1 </p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:24:22 -0300
From: Henri Alves de Godoy <a href="mailto:henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br" target="_blank"><henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br></a>
To: Latin America and Caribbean Region Network Operators Group
<a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank"><lacnog@lacnic.net></a>
Subject: [lacnog] Big Tech's use of carrier-grade NAT is holding back
internet innovation
Message-ID:
<a href="mailto:CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank"><CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Buenos dias !
Compartilhando a entrevista sobre preocupações sobre a adoção do IPv6
<a href="https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/" target="_blank">https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/</a>
Chamam a atenção os destaques:
"Carriers and Big Tech are happily continuing to use network address
translation (NAT) and IPv4 to protect their investments......."
"We are witnessing an industry that is no longer using technical
innovation, openness, and diversification as its primary means of
propulsion"
Saludos a todos !
</pre>
</blockquote>
--<br>
</div>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
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