<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi, Abe</div><div><br></div><div>Follow the comments below .....<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em sáb., 22 de jan. de 2022 às 17:28, Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">aychen@avinta.com</a>> escreveu:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div>
    <div><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">1)    Re: Ur. Pt. 1):   
        Thanks for your advice. It was not clear when I signed up to the
        mailing list. I am sending this MSG directly to  <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank">lacnog@lacnic.net</a>
           as you stated, with Cc: back to us as check points. What I am
        sharing is intended for the well being of the general public.
        There is no privacy concerns. So, I am including the entire
        thread below, starting from your initial post. Let's see what
        may happen. </font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">2)    Re: Ur. Pt. 2):   
        Thanks for the IPv4 auction market data. Now that you have
        brought this topic up, do you see how any developing regions can
        outbid big players such as Amazon, etc.? Then, what is the
        consequence of this trend?</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I haven't noticed a fear or a drop in the purchase or transfer of IPv4 due to the increase in cost. The movement was the opposite and many companies are not worrying about cost, they are increasingly buying IPv4, because that's what they know how to do, add more IPv4 blocks to their CGNAT. It's easier for them than investing in IPv6. I would say a suicidal move. Regarding Amazon's appropriation of large IPv4 blocks, I don't know what it will do, it's a gold mine and maybe the right thing would be to return the region. :-)) But I don't see any indication that it will do that.<br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">3)    Re: Ur. Pt. 3):   
        Thanks for the interview of Vint Cerf. I am not at a position to
        ask questions. I will continue my learning from whatever becomes
        public.</font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">4)    Re: Ur. Pt. 4)   
        "... Rapid host
        identification in case of an audit or police investigation.
        ...":    Actually, our proposal, EzIP may be viewed as an
        address resource replacement for the CG-NAT while maintaining
        its current position in the Internet architecture. So, there is
        no hardware change for the IAP (Internet Access Provider --- as
        opposed to ICP - Internet Content Provider. I have found using
        these as subsets of the commonly known ISP can minimize the
        confusions.). Then, the disciplined address administration
        proposed by EzIP will make the host identification goal
        none-issue because it is inherent.</font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Abe, I don't have information and I haven't read about the subject to give an opinion on EzIP.<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><font size="4"> <br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">5)    Re: Ur. Pt. 5) " I
        am Brazilian and I speak little English and Spanish.   ":    
        So, your native tongue is Portuguese? Understood.</font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">6)    Re: Ur. Pt. 5) " I
        didn't know about this draft. ... I
        will read with great care and attention. ...  is it worth
        investing in any study
        or change in IPv4, a protocol that is no longer standard?   ":
            This is a very intertwined situation. Allow me to be brief.
        Our EzIP work started as a curiosity about IPv4 address pool
        exhaustion. By the time we came to something chewable, the
        Internet community had decided to phase out IPv4. We were not
        informed of the Working Group SunSet4, except allowed to post
        semi-annual updates of our progress to IETF. So, you would not
        have known the existence of such IETF drafts unless you were
        specifically searching with relevant keywords. What is
        interesting is that recently, I began to hear certain opinions
        such as "<span>IPv6 is still seen as an option, rather than an urgent
          necessity."</span> Also, there is a group of Internet veterans
        who have been working on the "IPv4 Unicast Extensions Project"
        that tries to extend the IPv4 in certain areas. One of them
        overlaps with EzIP. You may want to have a look at it (see URL
        below). The key questions at the moment would be; Is there
        anything that only IPv6 can do? And, </font><font size="4"><font size="4">would it be worthwhile, </font></font><font size="4">if
        finite effort in IPv4 is required to revamp the Internet? <br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">   
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-240-01" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-240-01</a></font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">I look forward to your
        thoughts,</font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This draft of the block 240/4 release I will have to change all my class slides and let all my students know that something historic has changed! :-))<br><br>Leaving the jokes behind, I imagine that these millions of IPv4 addresses that would be more available do not solve the problem of scarcity. Who cares about this? Or would it just be to accomplish a historic feat or correct a past mistake as well? I know that changes and mistakes happen. Imagine the work of changing software, firmware, acls, firewalls. Is it worth the effort ?<br><br>About your question "The key questions at the moment would be; Is there anything that only IPv6 can do?"<br><br>The question is very good and makes our mind work and heat up.<br><br>I would start by answering as being the only protocol so far that can achieve an assignment to a large amount of equipment (IoT, 5G). In addition to the equipment and routers, they worked much better and faster in delivering packages. I would say that we have the opportunity to return and revive the concept of the early days of the Internet which is its end-to-end connection.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><font size="4">
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4"><br>
      </font></div>
    <div><font size="4">Abe (2022-01-22 15:27
        EST)<br>
      </font></div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div><br>
    </div>
    <div>On 2022-01-22 11:21, Henri Alves de
      Godoy wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div dir="ltr">
                      <div dir="ltr">
                        <div dir="ltr">
                          <div dir="ltr">
                            <div dir="ltr">Hi, Abraham !!!  The comments
                              are below ,
                              <div><br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="gmail_quote">
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <div><font size="4"><br>
                                  </font></div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>On 2022-01-21 23:12, Abraham Y.
                                  Chen wrote:<br>
                                </div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></div>
                                  <font size="4"> </font>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font> </div>
                                  <font size="4"> </font>
                                  <div><font size="4">0)    My apologies
                                      for mistyping your name. One of
                                      our team member's English name is
                                      Henry. So, I just automatically
                                      typed such to address you.<br>
                                    </font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">No problem, no
                                worries. It's very common for this to
                                happen
                                since I was a child. ;-)  <span></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4"> </font> </div>
                                  <font size="4"> </font>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font> </div>
                                  <font size="4"> </font>
                                  <div><font size="4">1)    I am glad
                                      that you responded, because I did
                                      not receive the broadcast copy of
                                      my MSG thru LACNOG-Request. I was
                                      beginning to wonder whether it was
                                      properly transmitted? Since you
                                      appear to be replying my MSG in
                                      private mode, did you receive a
                                      second copy of my previous MSG?
                                      Please keep an eye on this one and
                                      let me know, as well.<br>
                                    </font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Your messages are not
                                being sent to the general mailing
                                list, you must send them directly to <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank">lacnog@lacnic.net</a>
                                . I didn't want to
                                forward your comments to the list so as
                                not to commit any privacy issues.<span></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4"> </font></div>
                                  <font size="4"> </font>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font> </div>
                                  <font size="4"> </font>
                                  <div><font size="4">2)    Re: Ur Pt.
                                      1):    Many things can be quite
                                      deceiving if one is looking at
                                      only one angle at a time. For
                                      example, do you know Amazon has
                                      been hoarding a lot of surplus
                                      IPv4 addresses (see URL below)? If
                                      you surf around the web about this
                                      topic, you will find more similar
                                      activities by other big players.
                                      Why do US based IPv6 promoters
                                      keep on buying IPv4 addresses that
                                      are desperately needed by
                                      developing regions?<br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">    <a href="https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why" target="_blank">https://www.techradar.com/news/amazon-has-hoarded-billions-of-dollars-worth-of-ipv4-but-why</a></font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Yes, Amazon has a
                                large stock of IPv4. I commented in a
                                post
                                once about this problem or a
                                centralizing strategy. They continue to
                                buy IPv4
                                because it's an ever-growing market.
                                Money issue. See
                                <a href="https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/" target="_blank">https://ipv4.global/blog/july-2021-ipv4-auction-sales-report/</a><span></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">3)    Re: Ur. Pt.
                                      2):    Again, we need to look at
                                      an issue from multiple
                                      perspectives. For example, the
                                      starting point is why was IPv6
                                      designed without backward
                                      compatibility to IPv4?  I came
                                      through the traditional
                                      communications industries where
                                      such consideration was the first
                                      rule that a planner must follow,
                                      no ifs nor buts. As a result,
                                      telephone subscribers never knew
                                      when a Telco was upgrading the
                                      equipment, except when one makes a
                                      phone call around midnight and
                                      such activities happened to be
                                      scheduled.</font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Excellent question.
                                We should ask Sir Vin Cerf  :-))).
                                Recently in
                                an interview, he admitted several
                                mistakes from the past with IPv4 such as
                                encryption and a small addressing field
                                at the time.<span></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><a href="https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos" target="_blank">https://prensa.lacnic.net/news/eventos-es/vint-cerf-factores-de-exito-de-internet-y-los-desafios-para-los-proximos-50-anos</a><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">4)    Next, do you
                                      know that CG-NAT was developed to
                                      support web search, video
                                      streaming, gaming, etc. that
                                      demand high volume and fast
                                      response? Who are behind these? In
                                      essence, these high performance
                                      services pushed the need for
                                      server-client model with </font><font size="4"><font size="4">data-centers
                                        distributed to be close to high
                                        usage regions. Since these
                                        operators do not see any harm
                                        from IPv4 based CG-NAT, why
                                        should they abandon their
                                        investment to go IPv6?</font></font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">In my opinion,
                                thinking that there is no harm in CGNAT
                                in
                                IPv4 is thought towards destruction. I
                                would not accept or hire an ISP that
                                offered me an old and outdated protocol.
                                I would change ISP. That's what I say
                                to everyone, including my students. In
                                addition to the eternal IPv4 blocks when
                                we
                                talk about online games (PSN) when using
                                CGNAT. Changing an ISP's mindset is
                                difficult and pointing out the wrong
                                investment he is making too. Rapid host
                                identification in case of an audit or
                                police investigation. Many advantages.<span></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4"><font size="4"> </font>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">5)    Since
                                      English is already my second
                                      language, I could not read the
                                      beginning part of your original
                                      MSG which I believed to be in
                                      Spanish, but only responded to the
                                      second part. I now realize that
                                      you were referring to a fresh
                                      article on theRegister that I had
                                      already read the APNIC blog that
                                      it cited. Allow me to make a
                                      disclaimer so that our discussion
                                      will be meaningful and
                                      transparent. That is</font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4">    A.    I lead a
                                      team that has done further work
                                      along the vein of the over
                                      thirteen years old IETF Draft by
                                      APNIC mentioned by their current
                                      blog. You will find our latest
                                      IETF Draft at:</font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">    <a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space" target="_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space</a></font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">    B.   Also, our
                                      work has been granted US Pat. No.
                                      11,159,425.</font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">I am Brazilian and I
                                speak little English and Spanish. I
                                didn't know about this draft. Thanks for
                                sharing and I
                                will read with great care and attention.
                                Excellent work and congratulations on
                                the patent acquired. Sorry for the
                                question, is it worth investing in any
                                study
                                or change in IPv4, a protocol that is no
                                longer standard?</p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><span></span></p>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4"> <br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">    During the
                                      above study, we navigated through
                                      a lot of uncharted territories and
                                      waters to formulate our solution.
                                      So, please pardon my analyses and
                                      opinions that may not conform to
                                      current general views.   <br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">Regards,</font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </blockquote>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Different points of
                                view are important and I appreciate that
                                very much. Thanks for sharing.<span></span></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                              </p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Best Regards,</p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                              </p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">Henri.</p>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div> </div>
                            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                              <div>
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div><font size="4"> </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4"><br>
                                    </font></div>
                                  <div><font size="4">Abe (2022-01-21
                                      23:11 EST)<br>
                                    </font> </div>
                                  <font size="4"> </font>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div><br>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>On 2022-01-21 14:54, Henri Alves
                                    de Godoy wrote:<br>
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote type="cite">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div dir="ltr">
                                        <div>Hi Abraham, thanks for
                                          replying and for the comments.</div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>1) Yes, the interview
                                          really does not classify into
                                          sub-categories. We know that
                                          the biggest ones like Google,
                                          AWS, Facebook, already have
                                          ipv6-only datacenter.</div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>2) Yes, let's say that
                                          since the ISP made an
                                          investment with CGNAT that in
                                          my opinion made a "wrong
                                          decision", it is clear that he
                                          will want to protect. But the
                                          adoption of IPv6 goes beyond a
                                          simple new protocol. Its
                                          adoption is strategic for its
                                          survival as well. Currently
                                          delivering CGNAT with IPv6
                                          (dual stak) is the most common
                                          approach. Investing in IPv4
                                          and buying more IPv4 address
                                          blocks has no future.</div>
                                        <div><br>
                                        </div>
                                        <div>Regards,</div>
                                        <div>Henri.</div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">
                                      <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Em
                                        sex., 21 de jan. de 2022 às
                                        12:29, Abraham Y. Chen <<a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com" target="_blank">aychen@avinta.com</a>>
                                        escreveu:<br>
                                      </div>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div>
                                          <p><font size="4">Hi, Henri:</font></p>
                                          <p><font size="4">1)   
                                              Perhaps if you could make
                                              a distinction between who
                                              are behind the IPv6 and
                                              who are behind the IPv4
                                              CG-NAT, the subject will
                                              become clearer. That is,
                                              they are both Big, but in
                                              separate sub-categories of
                                              Tech companies.</font></p>
                                          <p><font size="4">2)    There
                                              is nothing wrong about
                                              protecting the investment
                                              for the sake of at least
                                              including the consumer.
                                              Pushing new technology
                                              from the perspective of
                                              the innovator is
                                              narrow-minded.<br>
                                            </font></p>
                                          <p><font size="4"><br>
                                            </font></p>
                                          <p><font size="4">Regards,</font></p>
                                          <p><font size="4"><br>
                                            </font></p>
                                          <p><font size="4"><br>
                                            </font></p>
                                          <p><font size="4">Abe
                                              (2022-01-21 10:29 EST)</font></p>
                                          <p><br>
                                          </p>
                                          <p>Message: 1 </p>
                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                            <pre>Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2022 09:24:22 -0300
From: Henri Alves de Godoy <a href="mailto:henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br" target="_blank"><henri.godoy@fca.unicamp.br></a>
To: Latin America and Caribbean Region Network Operators Group
        <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net" target="_blank"><lacnog@lacnic.net></a>
Subject: [lacnog] Big Tech's use of carrier-grade NAT is holding back
        internet innovation
Message-ID:
        <a href="mailto:CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank"><CALRKgT49U50hRii8mhNcFpP+mHEVpm0R=tX4a+3Vs+afXu5H0Q@mail.gmail.com></a>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Buenos dias !

Compartilhando a entrevista sobre preocupações sobre a adoção do IPv6

<a href="https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/" target="_blank">https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/20/ipv4_nats_slow_ipv6_transition/</a>

Chamam a atenção os destaques:

"Carriers and Big Tech are happily continuing to use network address
translation (NAT) and IPv4 to protect their investments......."

"We are witnessing an industry that is no longer using technical
innovation, openness, and diversification as its primary means of
propulsion"

Saludos a todos !
</pre>
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                                          --<br>
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