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<p>Hi Mike</p>
<p>I will not provide it right now. If you don't believe and wish to
get a strong evidence I suggest you consult LACNIC directly and
take the chances in the case you are participating on this type of
activities.</p>
<p>Regarding the AWS example if the prefixes are used under those
circunstances I saw no problem with it as long the resource holder
can prove that if asked by the RIR.</p>
<p>Regards<br>
Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Em 03/02/2022 17:42, Mike Burns
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal">Please, for the third time, can you provide
a link to anything but your own opinion?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Leasing is allowed in ARIN, in RIPE, and in
APNIC without question.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can I get the LACNIC link prohibiting it?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">With the AWS thing, at least you
acknowledge there is no inherent problem with the advertising
of blocks under an ASN not the same as the block owner.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So there is some progress…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> LACNOG
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net"><lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando
Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 03, 2022 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net">lacnog@lacnic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lacnog] Subasignación de prefijos a
otro ASN y el tema con los RoA<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Hi, you don´t need to believe me, you need to believe LACNIC.<br>
If you still don't then I suggest you tell them some LACNIC
registered prefixes that are currently leased to another ASN
to make a little test.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>AWS case is a completely different scenario. That´s not a
leasing. Their customer, which is the rightful resource holder
of those prefixes wish to use them inside AWS environment so
there is no problem for them to use their own prefixes there.
In those cases if the resource holder is using those prefixes
according to what they have been justified for then all if
good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Em 03/02/2022 17:29, Mike Burns escreveu:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">You keep stating it’s prohibited, but I
don’t believe you.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you provide links supporting your
statements?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What do you say about AWS and other cloud
providers advertising their clients’ addresses under the
AWS ASN?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> LACNOG <a
href="mailto:lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 03, 2022 3:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lacnog@lacnic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lacnog] Subasignación de prefijos a
otro ASN y el tema con los RoA<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Leasing is prohibited for LACNIC registered prefixes and
LACNIC already confirmed it, either is is good or not to
broker business. If you don't believe I invite you to
publish LACNIC registered prefixes from organizations you
have knowledge and that are currently rented to other ASNs
so they can "have a look". And to make it more clear in
AfriNic and APNIC regions it is also prohibited there. Even
if you can point it is being done over there in some cases,
thankfully it is prohibited.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If you dint's understand it clear my response to Salvador
is to warn that as there is a leasing involved it cannot be
used with LACNIC prefixes independent if there is a ROA or
not. My point was not specifically about the ROA but about
something that comes before it and is more important.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Em 03/02/2022 16:48, Mike Burns
escreveu:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Untrue, leasing is not prohibited, if
it were, there wouldn’t be sites like ipxo.com.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do a google search for “ipv4 leasing”
and see how prohibited it is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fernando, can you do us the favor of
pointing out where leasing is prohibited in policy or law?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have already told you that
advertising blocks under the ASN of non-owners of the
block is perfectly acceptable and commonplace among cloud
providers who offer “bring-your-own-addresses” services,
like Oracle and AWS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Salvador, you can certainly get ROAs
for leased blocks, except where RPKI is prohibited, as it
is for ARIN legacy holders who haven’t signed a
registration agreement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you need to lease blocks with an
ROA, it is not difficult to find lessors that will offer
that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Mike Burns<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> LACNOG <a
href="mailto:lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 03, 2022 2:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lacnog@lacnic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lacnog] Subasignación de prefijos
a otro ASN y el tema con los RoA<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Hola Salvador<br>
<br>
Como mencionaste que están involucrados brokers/renters de
IP, es claro que estamos hablando de arrendamiento de
direcciones IP y es importante aclarar algunos puntos
importantes para que nadie esté operando direcciones
registradas en la región de LACNIC de manera incorrecta.
Con o sin existencia de ROAs para el prefijo en cuestión
*en la región de LACNIC* (y en algunas otras regiones del
mundo) *no se permite el arrendamiento o préstamo de
direcciones IP de un ASN a otro*.<br>
<br>
<span class="jlqj4b"><span lang="ES">Independiente</span></span>
el motivo, ya sea por escasez de direcciones IPv4 o por
otro, no está permitido arrendamiento y no es correcto que
una ASN alquile direcciones registradas en la región
LACNIC a otra ASN.<br>
Incluso se pueden utilizar prefijos registrados en otras
regiones que lo permitan, pero no los registrados en la
región de LACNIC.<br>
<br>
Las únicas 2 formas de lidiar con este problema aquí son
el proceso de Transferencias de prefijos de un ASN a otro
de manera definitiva (que puede ser facilitado por un
intermediario) o con mayor uso de IPv6 y menor dependencia
de IPv4.<br>
Por lo tanto, incluso si la propuesta de política
LAC-2020-10 llega a un consenso, no podría usarse para los
prefijos de la región de LACNIC si se están arrendando a
otra ASN.<br>
<br>
Los ASN quien hizo sus prefijos registrados per LACNIC
estén disponibles para alquiler a través de un
intermediario corren el riesgo de caer en el proceso de
recuperación.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Em 03/02/2022 15:31, Salvador
Bertenbreiter escreveu:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hola a todos, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Espero estén bien, hay un tema
sobre el cual me gustaría iniciar la conversación,
IP brokers/renters y certificados RoA.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Due to the exhaustion of IPv4
blocks, new ISPs that are getting their ASN and
IPv6 block in LACNIC are needed to obtain at
least one IPv4 /24 block with an IP broker (or
similar). Because even if they are delivering
IPv6 addressing to their clients, they still
need even a /24 to raise bgp in IPv4 and then do
CG-NAT for that traffic. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The problem I see is that
most, at least of the several I've had contact
with, of IP brokers (and international carriers
that undersign IPs) are not offering to issue a
RoA for prefixes that they sub-assign to another
ASN, which I think is a problem as it breaks the
path to greater adoption of RPKI. How do you
think this situation could be improved/solved?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Saludos,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Salvador<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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