<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Hi, you don´t need to believe me, you need to believe LACNIC.<br>
If you still don't then I suggest you tell them some LACNIC
registered prefixes that are currently leased to another ASN to
make a little test.</p>
<p>AWS case is a completely different scenario. That´s not a
leasing. Their customer, which is the rightful resource holder of
those prefixes wish to use them inside AWS environment so there is
no problem for them to use their own prefixes there. In those
cases if the resource holder is using those prefixes according to
what they have been justified for then all if good.</p>
<p>Fernando<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Em 03/02/2022 17:29, Mike Burns
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:00d101d8193c$bd4d94e0$37e8bea0$@iptrading.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style>@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}span.jlqj4b
{mso-style-name:jlqj4b;}span.EmailStyle23
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;}.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">You keep stating it’s prohibited, but I
don’t believe you.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can you provide links supporting your
statements?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What do you say about AWS and other cloud
providers advertising their clients’ addresses under the AWS
ASN?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> LACNOG
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net"><lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando
Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 03, 2022 3:14 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net">lacnog@lacnic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lacnog] Subasignación de prefijos a
otro ASN y el tema con los RoA<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Leasing is prohibited for LACNIC registered prefixes and
LACNIC already confirmed it, either is is good or not to
broker business. If you don't believe I invite you to publish
LACNIC registered prefixes from organizations you have
knowledge and that are currently rented to other ASNs so they
can "have a look". And to make it more clear in AfriNic and
APNIC regions it is also prohibited there. Even if you can
point it is being done over there in some cases, thankfully it
is prohibited.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If you dint's understand it clear my response to Salvador is
to warn that as there is a leasing involved it cannot be used
with LACNIC prefixes independent if there is a ROA or not. My
point was not specifically about the ROA but about something
that comes before it and is more important.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Em 03/02/2022 16:48, Mike Burns escreveu:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Untrue, leasing is not prohibited, if it
were, there wouldn’t be sites like ipxo.com.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Do a google search for “ipv4 leasing” and
see how prohibited it is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fernando, can you do us the favor of
pointing out where leasing is prohibited in policy or law?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have already told you that advertising
blocks under the ASN of non-owners of the block is perfectly
acceptable and commonplace among cloud providers who offer
“bring-your-own-addresses” services, like Oracle and AWS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Salvador, you can certainly get ROAs for
leased blocks, except where RPKI is prohibited, as it is for
ARIN legacy holders who haven’t signed a registration
agreement.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you need to lease blocks with an ROA,
it is not difficult to find lessors that will offer that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
Mike Burns<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> LACNOG <a
href="mailto:lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Fernando Frediani<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 03, 2022 2:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lacnog@lacnic.net"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">lacnog@lacnic.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [lacnog] Subasignación de prefijos a
otro ASN y el tema con los RoA<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Hola Salvador<br>
<br>
Como mencionaste que están involucrados brokers/renters de
IP, es claro que estamos hablando de arrendamiento de
direcciones IP y es importante aclarar algunos puntos
importantes para que nadie esté operando direcciones
registradas en la región de LACNIC de manera incorrecta. Con
o sin existencia de ROAs para el prefijo en cuestión *en la
región de LACNIC* (y en algunas otras regiones del mundo)
*no se permite el arrendamiento o préstamo de direcciones IP
de un ASN a otro*.<br>
<br>
<span class="jlqj4b"><span lang="ES">Independiente</span></span>
el motivo, ya sea por escasez de direcciones IPv4 o por
otro, no está permitido arrendamiento y no es correcto que
una ASN alquile direcciones registradas en la región LACNIC
a otra ASN.<br>
Incluso se pueden utilizar prefijos registrados en otras
regiones que lo permitan, pero no los registrados en la
región de LACNIC.<br>
<br>
Las únicas 2 formas de lidiar con este problema aquí son el
proceso de Transferencias de prefijos de un ASN a otro de
manera definitiva (que puede ser facilitado por un
intermediario) o con mayor uso de IPv6 y menor dependencia
de IPv4.<br>
Por lo tanto, incluso si la propuesta de política
LAC-2020-10 llega a un consenso, no podría usarse para los
prefijos de la región de LACNIC si se están arrendando a
otra ASN.<br>
<br>
Los ASN quien hizo sus prefijos registrados per LACNIC estén
disponibles para alquiler a través de un intermediario
corren el riesgo de caer en el proceso de recuperación.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Fernando<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Em 03/02/2022 15:31, Salvador
Bertenbreiter escreveu:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hola a todos, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Espero estén bien, hay un tema
sobre el cual me gustaría iniciar la conversación,
IP brokers/renters y certificados RoA.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Due to the exhaustion of IPv4
blocks, new ISPs that are getting their ASN and
IPv6 block in LACNIC are needed to obtain at least
one IPv4 /24 block with an IP broker (or similar).
Because even if they are delivering IPv6
addressing to their clients, they still need even
a /24 to raise bgp in IPv4 and then do CG-NAT for
that traffic. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The problem I see is that most,
at least of the several I've had contact with, of
IP brokers (and international carriers that
undersign IPs) are not offering to issue a RoA for
prefixes that they sub-assign to another ASN,
which I think is a problem as it breaks the path
to greater adoption of RPKI. How do you think this
situation could be improved/solved?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Saludos,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Salvador<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>LACNOG mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:LACNOG@lacnic.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">LACNOG@lacnic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Cancelar suscripcion: <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>LACNOG mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:LACNOG@lacnic.net" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">LACNOG@lacnic.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Cancelar suscripcion: <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
LACNOG mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:LACNOG@lacnic.net">LACNOG@lacnic.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog</a>
Cancelar suscripcion: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>