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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=ES link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Personally, I don’t think it is worth and I’m not going to invest more time in discussing this, just a short note for others to consider:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The effort to “reinvent” any part of IPv4 or patches to it, then test that everything keeps working as expected, versus the benefits and gained time, it is much best invested in continue the IPv6 deployment which is already going on in LAC and the rest of the world.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>It would not make sense, for a region like LAC to trow away all the efforts that have been already done with IPv6 and we should avoid confusing people.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>IPv6 is the only viable long-term solution, and this is the reason why what you are proposing and similar approaches have been rejected several times by IETF.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Saludos,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Jordi<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>@jordipalet<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:12.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'>El 12/3/22 5:56, "LACNOG en nombre de Abraham Y. Chen" <<a href="mailto:lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net">lacnog-bounces@lacnic.net</a> en nombre de <a href="mailto:aychen@avinta.com">aychen@avinta.com</a>> escribió:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Dear Colleagues:</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>0) I was made aware of a recent discussion on this Forum that cited our work on the 240/4 NetBlock, nicknamed EzIP (Phonetic for Easy IPv4). (Please see, at the end of this MSG, the URL to the discussion and the highlighted text where the citation was made.)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>1) As the lead investigator of the EzIP Project, I would like to formally introduce our solution by bringing your attention to an overview whitepaper:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> English: <a href="https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet.pdf">https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet.pdf</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> Spanish: <a href="https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet_ES.pdf">https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet_ES.pdf</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> Portuguese: <a href="https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet_PT.pdf">https://www.avinta.com/phoenix-1/home/RevampTheInternet_PT.pdf</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> In a nutshell, EzIP proposes:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> A. Disable the program codes in current routers that have been disabling the use of the 240/4 NetBlock. The cost of this software engineering should be minimal. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> B. The EzIP deployment architecture is the same as that of the existing CG-NAT (Carrier Grade Network Address Translation). Consequently, there is no need to modify any hardware equipment. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> There is an online setup description called RAN (Regional Area Network), (Reference II), that demonstrates the feasibility of this approach.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>2) There are additional consequential benefits by deploying EzIP, such as those mentioned by our comment to Reference III in the above whitepaper.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>I look forward to addressing your thoughts.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'><br>Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Abe (2022-03-08 09:22 EST)<br>VP Engineering<br>Avinta Communications, Inc.<br>Milpitas, CA 95035 USA</span><br><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>+1(408)942-1485</span><br><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Skype: Abraham.Y.Chen</span><br><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>eMail: <a href="mailto:AYChen@Avinta.com">AYChen@Avinta.com</a></span><br><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>WebSite: <a href="http://www.Avinta.com">www.Avinta.com</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'>*****************<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/008895.html">https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/008895.html</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><h1 style='margin-left:35.4pt'>[lacnog] Draft: Unicast Use of the Formerly Reserved 127/8 <o:p></o:p></h1><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><b>Leandro Bertholdo</b> <a href="mailto:lacnog%40lacnic.net?Subject=Re%3A%20%5Blacnog%5D%20Draft%3A%20Unicast%20Use%20of%20the%20Formerly%20Reserved%20127/8&In-Reply-To=%3C86B6BC4D-1D2B-406A-978B-09F459FBD585%40penta.ufrgs.br%3E" title="[lacnog] Draft: Unicast Use of the Formerly Reserved
127/8">berthold en penta.ufrgs.br </a><br><i>Lun Nov 29 07:15:28 -03 2021</i> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>Mensaje anterior: <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/008894.html">[lacnog] Draft: Unicast Use of the Formerly Reserved 127/8 </a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]>Próximo mensaje: <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/008888.html">[lacnog] Draft: Unicast Use of the Formerly Reserved 127/8 </a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:71.4pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>·<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><b>Mensajes ordenados por:</b> <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/date.html#8895">[ fecha ]</a> <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/thread.html#8895">[ hilo ]</a> <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/subject.html#8895">[ asunto ]</a> <a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/pipermail/lacnog/2021-November/author.html#8895">[ autor ]</a> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:35.4pt;text-align:center'><hr size=0 width="100%" align=center></div><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Oi Fernando, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>O que eu quero dizer é que problema é independente de ser endereçamento global ou não. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Esses blocos são simplesmente considerados violações de uso na maioria dos softwares, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>sistemas operacionais e implementações dos protocolos.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Ou seja, qualquer coisa no sentido de usa-los precisa de todo aquele trabalho. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Eu simplesmente não consigo ver como chegar-se a qualquer meio termo nesse sentido - todo <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>mundo que produz equipamentos de rede vai ter que revisar o código. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Se considerarmos que, o uso como endereçamento global é o máximo ganho possível,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>e ainda assim não vale o esforço, qualquer outro uso não fará sentido.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>De 2007 a 2009 se conversou sobre o reuso. Note que a primeira proposta foi para uso <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>privado, que depois evoluiu para simplesmente tornar esses endereços válidos:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>* August 3, 2007 - Redesignation of 240/4 from "Future Use" to "Limited Use for Large Private Internets <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wilson-class-e-00">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wilson-class-e-00</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>* March 2, 2008 - Reclassifying 240/4 as usable unicast address space <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fuller-240space-00">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fuller-240space-00</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>* September 13, 2008 - Reclassifying 240/4 as usable unicast address space <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fuller-240space-01">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-fuller-240space-01</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Passaram-se mais de 10 anos e nem isso foi adiante. Esses IPs ainda sao considerados<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>invalidos pelas RFCs correntes.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Linux responde como argumento invalido<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Routers também…<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Apple também<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Resumindo, os equipamentos atuais não tem suporte. Se os sistemas operacionais e routers fossem atualizados<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>os provedores de acesso deveriam realizar upgrade em *TODOS* os equipamentos, e eventualmente algum equipamento<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>legado teria que ser substituído, assim como foi para suportar IPv6.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>O que eu quero dizer no final das contas é que estamos revisitando um problema que muita gente já estudou e avaliou.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Essa proposta não foi descartada de imediato. Muita gente já gastou muito tempo achar uma saída por esse caminho...<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Acredito que será difícil você encontrar suporte para qualquer proposta nesse sentido 15 anos depois.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Outro ponto é a demanda (ou falta dela) que o Rubens citou. Até hoje não ouvi nenhuma operadora reclamando <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>de falta de endereçamento privado que elas não achassem uma saída.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>A solução que várias operadoras tem usado para liberar os IPs de backbone é por colocar toda a rede com <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>endereçamento IPv6 e transportar IPv4 sobre IPv6 (normalmente MPLS). <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Ou seja, existem soluções viáveis que não dependem de nenhuma nova RFC.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:red'>A proposta do Chen, Adaptive IPv4 Address Space (draft-chen-ati-adaptive-ipv4-address-space-09.txt)</span> <span style='color:red'>sugere usodo 240/4 para IoT.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:red'>Mas desenvolver um novo protocolo com foco em IoT e restrito a 256M devices</span> quando se fala em 5 Bilhoes de IoT <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>previstos em 2022 nao parece que vai atrair a atenção de muita gente. A ultima atualizacao dessa draft foi em 2021.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Olhando pra esse histórico todo, acho que a proposta do Schoen (<a href="https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-127-00.html">https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-schoen-intarea-unicast-127-00.html</a>)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>(assunto desse email) também não vá adiante. Propor alterar a máscara de interface de Loopback em todos<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>os equipamento que falam IP para resgatar menos de um /8. Não creio que será bem aceita!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Legal a discussão Fernando, me serviu pra dar uma atualizada em como anda esse assunto… ;-)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Abraço a todos.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>Leandro Bertholdo<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>><i> On 29 Nov 2021, at 04:31, Fernando Frediani <<a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog">fhfrediani en gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></i></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>><i> <o:p></o:p></i></pre><pre style='margin-left:35.4pt'>><i> Olá Leandro<o:p></o:p></i></pre><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>***************</span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id=DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellpadding=0 style='margin-left:35.4pt;border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt'><tr><td width=55 style='width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon" target="_blank"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'><span style='color:blue'><img border=0 width=46 height=29 style='width:.4791in;height:.302in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"></span></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=470 style='width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E'>Virus-free. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link" target="_blank"><span style='color:#4453EA'>www.avast.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:35.4pt'><span style='color:white'>_______________________________________________ LACNOG mailing list LACNOG@lacnic.net https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog Cancelar suscripcion: https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><br>**********************************************<br>
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