<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Gabriel,<div><br></div><div>Here is my personal opinion on this matter.</div><div><br></div><div>There IS already NAP interconnection option in our region, it is called Global Crossing or TWIS or Nautilis, etc. now witn Internexa there will have another option and with this, cost may (I do not want to say should as you gave the example of Colombian costs to the landing station in the meeting) go down and ISPs in the region may think about deploying equipments in several countries. Moreover, with Ethernet over MPLS, they could even remotely connect to a NAP port without having to install equipments at the NAP premise. This is the way regional interconnectivity has happened in other region, finding one or more meeting points inside the region that make sense economically and technically to the ISPs. The question is if our NAP's policies are adequate for these scenario. I believe some are (such as the new CABASE policies) but some are not.</div><div><br></div><div>My problem with NAP (privately owned or community owned) subsiding an international link is the ability to this process to be sustainable in time ($) and to have a NAP that is competing with its own members. If as an ISP I will trust the NAP "network" to forward my packets in the region, can I sign a SLA?, will I have any alternative path? </div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>roque</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 2, 2009, at 6:37 PM, <<a href="mailto:gabriel.adonaylo@bt.com">gabriel.adonaylo@bt.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:gabriel.adonaylo@bt.com">gabriel.adonaylo@bt.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Woddy,<br><br>Thanks for your answers here. We have already discussed about this topics in different events such as IGFs but not sure tho' if it has been covered before in NAPLA meetings.<br><br>IMHO, there's interesting initiatives around traffic routing analysis on a regional level, but I do not find that the result would be interconnect IXPs but make use available information to make own decisions in order to improve intra-regional private backbones if there's any need to.<br><br>As you've just mentioned, it's a matter of Internet architecture and the matter of interconnecting IXPs is clearly against "nature".<br><br>Would like to read more comments about this topic.<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Gabriel.<br><br>-----Mensaje original-----<br>De: <a href="mailto:napla-bounces@lacnic.net">napla-bounces@lacnic.net</a> [<a href="mailto:napla-bounces@lacnic.net">mailto:napla-bounces@lacnic.net</a>] En nombre de Bill Woodcock<br>Enviado el: Martes, 02 de Junio de 2009 06:13 p.m.<br>Para: Lista de operadores de NAP/IXP de la regió n<br>Asunto: Re: [LACNIC/Napla] Lacnic XII / NAPLA - Q & A<br><br><br>On Jun 2, 2009, at 1:36 PM, <<a href="mailto:gabriel.adonaylo@bt.com">gabriel.adonaylo@bt.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">There's always been an idea to interconnect IXPs between different <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">countries in the region and of course a debate around these <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">initiatives. As I noticed that one of the speakers mentioned this <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">topic once again I thought it was a good idea to re-open the <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">discussion taking advantage of your presence in the meeting...<br></blockquote><br><br>I would strongly second Serge's remarks. In my experience, the idea of "interconnecting IXPs" inevitably springs up periodically, in every region. It's always the brain-wave of someone smart and well- intentioned, but who doesn't clearly grasp the economic structure of the Internet.<br><br>Interconnecting IXPs turns the IXPs into a layer-2 carrier, and destroys the IXPs in the process. This is very nearly definitional, in fact.<br><br>So anyone who's deriving value from an IXP should oppose any attempts to convert it, since that will both reduce and privatize the value of the IXP. It takes a large public good, and converts it to (at best) a small private good. Speaking in a more global political and economic context, we've already seen enough of that sort of behavior in the last decade, and already seen what it does to the economic environment that we work within.<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">De: <a href="mailto:napla-bounces@lacnic.net">napla-bounces@lacnic.net</a> [<a href="mailto:napla-bounces@lacnic.net">mailto:napla-bounces@lacnic.net</a>] En <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">nombre de Serge Radovcic Enviado el: Martes, 02 de Junio de 2009 07:45 <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a.m.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Para: Lista de operadores de NAP/IXP de la regió n<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Asunto: Re: [LACNIC/Napla] Lacnic XII / NAPLA - Q & A<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Oops!!<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I think I was writing a little too quickly....Just to be clear...... <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I meant to say that there is "NO" trend of IXPs interconnecting and <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that the members of association run IXPs would be "STRONGLY OPPOSED"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to such interconnection plans.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Serge<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 6/2/09 12:34 PM, "Serge Radovcic" <<a href="mailto:serge@euro-ix.net">serge@euro-ix.net</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">In general the answer would be "no". And I would say that there is <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">even a trend or plan for this to be the case.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There are a very few, and I mean around five of the 110 IXPs in <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Europe that have initiated such interconnection plans over the years, <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">a few of these have been commercial internet exchanges and one of <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">them had quite a bit of success in doing this, while the others that <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have gone down this road have been 'government' run IXPs that were <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">looking to connect local government networks with each other, this <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">was generally done on a regional or sometimes national level.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Most IXPs in Europe tend to be associations and their policies are <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">generally directly or indirectly put in place by their membership.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">many of their members would not be strongly opposed to such plans of <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">connecting IXPs, mainly for the reason that they feel that they would <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">be losing business through these connections and that the IXP would <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">now be in competition with them on a regional, national or even <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">international scale.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">So how does the Latin American IXP community feel about <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">interconnecting IXPs? Have their been attempts in the past to do <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">this?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Are there some planning to do this?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Napla mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Napla@lacnic.net">Napla@lacnic.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/napla">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/napla</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Napla mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Napla@lacnic.net">Napla@lacnic.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/napla">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/napla</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br> -Bill<br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Napla mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Napla@lacnic.net">Napla@lacnic.net</a><br><a href="https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/napla">https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/napla</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>--------------------------------------------------------</div><div>Roque Gagliano</div><div><a href="mailto:roque@lacnic.net">roque@lacnic.net</a></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></div></body></html>