[lacnog] Question about 240/4 space

[JORDI PALET MARTINEZ]

Hi Fernando,

We have debated this over and over in IETF.

The point is, if only one CE vendor in the world doesn't update the firmware to support 240, it becomes useless as the communication between two clients of two ISPs (and one of them not supporting 240), will not be viable.

Now, do you think you will be able to convince all the CE in the next 10 years (or even 20), to update that in the firmware for every CE model, and then all the ISPs/end-users to apply the new firmware?

What you do with the CEs that don't allow firmware updates, for example because the vendor died and nobody has the "code"?

I think it is much easier to dedicate this effort to IPv6 deployment even if you can find the same problems as for supporting the 240 (such as CEs that can't be updated for whatever reason).

This is not even considering that 240 may be blocked by equipment in the ISPs, transit providers, etc.

Of course, not to forget that may be some apps or OS, will NOT work with 240, and that means you need to update devices that use old OS or apps which the vendor doesn't longer exist!

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

El 24/7/19 16:17, "LACNOG en nombre de Fernando Frediani" <lacnog-bounces en lacnic.net en nombre de fhfrediani en gmail.com> escribió:

    Hello folks
    
    I wanted to put a question about this topic in order to learn a bit 
    deeper into this question from the community who have better knowledge 
    about it, specially those who have more IETF involvement.
    
    The last time I asked why still the 240/4 wasn't turned into usable /8's 
    to be distributed to all RIRs and therefore to LIRs and End-users. The 
    explanation I was given at the time was that people considered it for 
    quiet a while and came to a conclusion that was not worth the cost of 
    'changing everything needed to be changed' in order to make it work as 
    expected. Some have mentioned that some network firmware had embedded in 
    it to not even forward packets in this IP space.
    On this basis I wanted also to understand also who was the 'clever' idea 
    to deny forwarding to this packets in firmware to something tagged as 
    "Future Use", therefore that had the expectation to be used one day in 
    the future ?
    
    I am asking this because I have been reading some 'yet again' proposals 
    to make it viable and wanted to understand what are the the biggest 
    technical challenges to make it viable.
    If it is true that some firmware have this limitation, and it goes down 
    to a CPE level I can start understanding the amount of work to get every 
    single equipment updated to be able to talk to these future networks. 
    Even in a ISP/Telecom level one thing that comes to mind is where you 
    have very old and EOF routers still in production and people refusing to 
    take them our of production, no doubt even if Network vendors would 
    provide an updated firmware version those routers would never receive 
    it. Besides that what other big concerns are in your view ?
    
    With regards the points some people frequently raise about that any 
    extension to IPv4 space is a killer to IPv6 Deployments to come, I 
    personally refuse to believe in that, at least not in a binary way was 
    sometimes is preached. I see that regardless the improvements in IPv6 
    deployment (which I obviously support and actively practice on my day by 
    day) I always had the impression that we will live with the IPv4 
    internet for at least, in a very optimistic scenario for another 10 
    years or more. Recently I read a report about this subject that 
    mentioned at least another 20 years.
    
    And even when it is said that no matter how much IPv4 becomes available 
    it will never be enough and would be exhausted quiet quickly (probably 
    true). Well, I would say that if there is any chance for these 'new' 
    IPv4 to become functional they should never be intended to be used as 
    they have been in the last decades, but instead to certain and specific 
    usages as mainly facilitate IPv6 deployment and translation techniques, 
    Hosting and other scenarios where no-IPv4-at-all is not an option.
    
    Appreciate any comments and contributions to make it possible to 
    understand this subject better.
    
    Best regards
    Fernando Frediani
    
    
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