[LACNIC/Politicas] Nueva versión de la propuesta LAC-2020-1

Thu Apr 8 00:03:31 -03 2021

Hola Fernando,

Espero que te encuentres bien.

Tengo una duda, en tu propuesta y en tus mensajes mencionas que es un requisito "justo". ¿Por qué consideras que es justo? ¿Justo respecto de qué?
Mencionas también "para todos los demás que se vean afectados". ¿De que forma se ven afectados los demás si esta propuesta no avanza y este requisito no se agrega para las transferencias?

--Edmundo.

-----Original Message-----
From: Politicas <politicas-bounces at lacnic.net> On Behalf Of Fernando Frediani
Sent: Wednesday, 7 April, 2021 7:39 PM
To: politicas at lacnic.net
Subject: Re: [LACNIC/Politicas] Nueva versión de la propuesta LAC-2020-1

Hola

Como se mencionó muchas veces durante esta discusión, el temor de que alguien realice una transferencia fuera del sistema es una violación de las reglas y debe ser sancionado de acuerdo con las mismas reglas, a menos que alguien argumente que no se debe sancionar a alguien que hace una transferencia fuera del sistema. El sistema RIR y las reglas que la propia organización acordó seguir. Una propuesta cuando sea necesaria es necesaria independientemente de los miedos que puedan existir. Lo importante para solucionar este punto es que existen herramientas legales y administrativas para resolver los casos de quienes quieren luchar contra el sistema y las reglas que ellos mismos acordaron.

Esto no es una "presión artificial", sino un **requisito* *justo** para todos los demás que se vean afectados por esa transferencia de IPv4 **sin la contraparte para con todos los demás*.*

Es normal tener un requisito para la justificación y recepción de direcciones IPv4, IPv6 y ASN, así como para transferencias. Este extra que se propone no es demasiado o algo que imposibilita las transferencias.
Al final, el punto a tener en cuenta es que si alguien no puede demostrar el funcionamiento de IPv6, no le conviene a la comunidad afectada permitir que se realice una transferencia de IPv4 hasta que pueda comprometerse con todos los involucrados. Reforzando una vez más:
este es el espíritu de la propuesta.

Como dijo Henri en su respuesta, *no hay más excusas para no poder probar IPv6 operativo*. Si alguien a mediados de 2021 no puede, entonces hay algo muy mal y si hay algo mal hay que corregirlo y esta propuesta viene para ayudar eso.

Fernando Frediani

On 07/04/2021 10:50, Miguel A. Brante wrote:
> Hola a todos,
>
>
> Entiendo y hasta apoyo el fondo de esta propuesta, sin embargo no comparto en lo absoluto la forma.
>
> El poner una presión artificial para la adopción de IPv6 para
quienes tengan la urgencia de recibir recursos IPv4, tendrá como resultado que se hagan transacciones en el mercado externo y quizá fuera
> de los marcos regulatorios del RIR.
> En el mejor de los casos podría provocar implementaciones apuradas,
> pobres o disfuncionales con el fin de cumplir un mero requisito. Al final del día, LACNIC no va a tener ni la capacidad ni la potestad de auditar la implementación que he puesto en el papel.
>
> Veo mucho más positivo fomentar la adopción de IPv6 mediante argumentos y no mediante barreras y/u obligaciones que a mi parecer no harán un cambio significativo.
>
> Saludos
>
> Miguel Brante
>
>
> ----- Mensaje original -----
> De:info-politicas at lacnic.net
> Para: "Lista para discusion de politicas de la comunidad de
> LACNIC"<politicas at lacnic.net>
> Enviados: Miércoles, 31 de Marzo 2021 11:37:37
> Asunto: [LACNIC/Politicas] Nueva versión de la propuesta LAC-2020-1
>
> [Português abaixo]
> [English below]
>
> Estimados suscriptores de la lista de políticas de LACNIC,
>
> La propuesta LAC-2020-1 ha pasado de la versión 3 a la versión 4
>
> Título: Agregar IPv6 operativo como requisito para las transferencias
> de IPv4
>
> Resumen: On 15th February 2017 LACNIC started IPv4 Exhaustion Phase 3
> meaning only new entrants can receive up to a single /22 of IPv4
> space. Since then the amount of IPv4 Transfers between organizations
> has increased
reasonably as shown by the official LACNIC reports. With the implementation of LAC-2019-1 and possibility of Inter-RIR transfers these numbers have
> the potential to grow substantially.
>
> The objective of this proposal is to add as a requirement for
> organizations in process of receiving transferred IPv4 space under
> 2.3.2.18 to show they have an IPv6 allocation/assignment by LACNIC or
> a provider and that is operational on their networks. Such
> organization must be able to prove this IPv6 space is being used by
> providing LACNIC the documented network deployment details to prove
> IPv6 is operational in significant parts of
the network.
>
> On 28th November 2019 LACNIC Board issued a statement (https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lacnic.net%2F4283%2F2%2Flacnic%2Flacnic-board-calls-on-the-community-to-promote-ipv6-deployment&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4d6bef74194ccf208d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c400b89345a6dc1705645%7C0%7C1%7C637534391581242617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FuGJutRAwqTAd2VJ9idGgPPDRPq4TlgIHNOLz3vnwes%3D&reserved=0) reinforcing the issue about IPv4 exhaustion, mentioning IPv4 address space will be exhausted by mid-2020 and calling the community to promote IPv6 deployment.
> In its statement LACNIC Board “invite the community to work on promoting the development of policies that will accelerate the effective deployment of IPv6 above other policies that may be discussed at a later date.”
>
> In the case the receiver provides a written statement from its
> upstream
that IPv6 connectivity is unavailable, the IPv6 requirement may be waived.
> In the case LACNIC is not able to meet a new entrant request for IPv4
> space, or the organization does not hold any IPv4 space the IPv6 requirement may be waived for a transfer up to a /22.
>
> Para ver el detalle ingrese en:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoli
> ticas.lacnic.net%2Fpoliticas%2Fdetail%2Fid%2FLAC-2020-1%2Flanguage%2Fs
> p&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4d6bef74194ccf208
> d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c400b89345a6dc1705645%7C0%7C1%7C63753439158124
> 2617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
> iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=UlrqbUYV7%2FiO1joqFAd79upP2
> PtmPMjlus%2Bm5aGsDsA%3D&reserved=0
>
> Los cambios respecto a la versión anterior se pueden visualizar aquí:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoli
> ticas.lacnic.net%2Fpoliticas%2Fdiff2%3Fid%3DLAC-2020-1%26v%3D4%26v2%3D
> 3%26language%3DSP&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4
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> 34caRGxu3Gi0k%2BZuJk1ywJEhRJDiIe1I%3D&reserved=0
>
> Los comentarios y los puntos de vista aportados por la comunidad son
> vitales para el correcto desarrollo del proceso de la propuestas
> - ¿Apoya usted o se opone a esta nueva versión de la propuesta?
> - ¿Ve alguna desventaja en esta nueva versión de la propuesta?
> - ¿Qué cambios podrían hacerse a esta nueva versión
de la propuesta para que sea más eficaz?
>
>
> Por más información contacte ainfo-politicas at lacnic.net Saludos
> cordiales,
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________ Prezados assinantes da lista de
> políticas de LACNIC,
>
> A proposta LAC-2020-1 tem passado da versão 3 para a versão 4
>
> Título: Adicionar IPv6 operacional como requisito para as
> transferências do IPv4
>
> Resumo: On 15th February 2017 LACNIC started IPv4 Exhaustion Phase 3
> meaning only new entrants can receive up to a single /22 of IPv4
> space. Since then the amount of IPv4 Transfers between organizations
> has increased reasonably as shown by the official LACNIC reports. With
> the implementation of LAC-2019-1 and possibility of Inter-RIR
> transfers these numbers have
the potential to grow substantially.
>
> The objective of this proposal is to add as a requirement for
> organizations in process of receiving transferred IPv4 space under
> 2.3.2.18 to show they have an IPv6 allocation/assignment by LACNIC or
> a provider and that is operational on their networks. Such
> organization must be able to prove this IPv6 space is being used by
> providing LACNIC the documented network deployment details to prove
> IPv6 is operational in significant parts of
the network.
>
> On 28th November 2019 LACNIC Board issued a statement (https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lacnic.net%2F4283%2F2%2Flacnic%2Flacnic-board-calls-on-the-community-to-promote-ipv6-deployment&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4d6bef74194ccf208d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c400b89345a6dc1705645%7C0%7C1%7C637534391581242617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FuGJutRAwqTAd2VJ9idGgPPDRPq4TlgIHNOLz3vnwes%3D&reserved=0) reinforcing the issue about IPv4 exhaustion, mentioning IPv4 address space will be exhausted by mid-2020 and calling the community to promote IPv6 deployment.
> In its statement LACNIC Board “invite the community to work on promoting the development of policies that will accelerate the effective deployment of IPv6 above other policies that may be discussed at a later date.”
>
> In the case the receiver provides a written statement from its
> upstream
that IPv6 connectivity is unavailable, the IPv6 requirement may be waived.
> In the case LACNIC is not able to meet a new entrant request for IPv4
> space, or the organization does not hold any IPv4 space the IPv6 requirement may be waived for a transfer up to a /22.
>
> Para ver o detalhe acesse:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoli
> ticas.lacnic.net%2Fpoliticas%2Fdetail%2Fid%2FLAC-2020-1%2Flanguage%2Fp
> t&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4d6bef74194ccf208
> d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c400b89345a6dc1705645%7C0%7C1%7C63753439158124
> 2617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
> iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=RZEhT0TUxBAkdusgDNLwQnuPBkl
> f9LfTuKRUg9DBUDs%3D&reserved=0
>
> As alterações da versão anterior podem ser vistas aqui:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoli
> ticas.lacnic.net%2Fpoliticas%2Fdiff2%3Fid%3DLAC-2020-1%26v%3D4%26v2%3D
> 3%26language%3DPT&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4
> d6bef74194ccf208d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c400b89345a6dc1705645%7C0%7C1%
> 7C637534391581242617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
> joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=VSzGzMvLprX
> rH5AYgK2%2Bj8q6cftMc29OJe8jS6gulg4%3D&reserved=0
>
>   Os comentários e os pontos de vista aportados pela comunidade são
> vitais para o bom desenvolvimento do processo das propostas
> - Você está a favor ou em contra desta nova versão
>   da proposta?- Vê alguma desvantagem nesta nova versão
>   da proposta?
>
> - Que mudanças poderiam ser feitas à esta nova versão
>   da proposta para que seja mais eficaz?
>
> Por mais informações entre em contato conosco através do
e-mail:
> info-politicas at lacnic.net.
>
> Atenciosamente,
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________
>
> Dear LACNIC Policy List subscribers,
>
> Proposal LAC-2020-1 has been updated from version 3 to version 4
>
> Title: Add IPv6 operational as a requirement for IPv4 transfers
>
> Summary: On 15th February 2017 LACNIC started IPv4 Exhaustion Phase 3
> meaning only new entrants can receive up to a single /22 of IPv4
> space. Since then the amount of IPv4 Transfers between organizations
> has increased
reasonably as shown by the official LACNIC reports. With the implementation of LAC-2019-1 and possibility of Inter-RIR transfers these numbers have
> the potential to grow substantially.
>
> The objective of this proposal is to add as a requirement for
> organizations in process of receiving transferred IPv4 space under
> 2.3.2.18 to show they have an IPv6 allocation/assignment by LACNIC or
> a provider and that is operational on their networks. Such
> organization must be able to prove this IPv6 space is being used by
> providing LACNIC the documented network deployment details to prove
> IPv6 is operational in significant parts of
the network.
>
> On 28th November 2019 LACNIC Board issued a statement (https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lacnic.net%2F4283%2F2%2Flacnic%2Flacnic-board-calls-on-the-community-to-promote-ipv6-deployment&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4d6bef74194ccf208d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c400b89345a6dc1705645%7C0%7C1%7C637534391581242617%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FuGJutRAwqTAd2VJ9idGgPPDRPq4TlgIHNOLz3vnwes%3D&reserved=0) reinforcing the issue about IPv4 exhaustion, mentioning IPv4 address space will be exhausted by mid-2020 and calling the community to promote IPv6 deployment.
> In its statement LACNIC Board “invite the community to work on promoting the development of policies that will accelerate the effective deployment of IPv6 above other policies that may be discussed at a later date.”
>
> In the case the receiver provides a written statement from its
> upstream
that IPv6 connectivity is unavailable, the IPv6 requirement may be waived.
> In the case LACNIC is not able to meet a new entrant request for IPv4
> space, or the organization does not hold any IPv4 space the IPv6 requirement may be waived for a transfer up to a /22.
>
> To see the details, please click on:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoli
> ticas.lacnic.net%2Fpoliticas%2Fdetail%2Fid%2FLAC-2020-1%2Flanguage%2Fe
> n&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4d6bef74194ccf208
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> Ic1ZhYN9qNVksY%2BJWA%3D&reserved=0
>
> The changes from the previous version can be seen here:
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpoli
> ticas.lacnic.net%2Fpoliticas%2Fdiff2%3Fid%3DLAC-2020-1%26v%3D4%26v2%3D
> 3%26language%3DEN&data=04%7C01%7Cedmundo.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4
> d6bef74194ccf208d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c400b89345a6dc1705645%7C0%7C1%
> 7C637534391581252612%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI
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>
> The community's comments and opinions are essential to the proper functioning of the policy development process.
> - Do you support this new version of the proposal or are you against it?
> - Do you think this new version of the proposal has any drawbacks?
> - What changes could be made to this new version of the proposal to make it more effective?
>
> For further information, please contactinfo-politicas at lacnic.net Kind
> regards,
> --
> LACNIC - Registro de Direcciones de Internet para América Latina y
Caribe
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>
> Montevideo-Uruguay
>
> Teléfono: +598 2604 22 22
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> o.cazarez%40nic.mx%7Ccdeff4d6bef74194ccf208d8fa26bca7%7Cc65a3ea60f7c40
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