[lacnog]         Subasignación de prefijos a otro ASN y el tema con los RoA

[Mike Burns]

You are correct, like your blanket statement about the inability to lease
legacy space, I made a blanket statement that you can refute through proving
me wrong on ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC.

Now that I've disposed of your wrong statement (Thank you Fernando), feel
free to try to dispose of my correct statement.

You may want to get into the weeds. For example, an ARIN resource holder
must use a /22 at least in North America.If you want to niggle about stuff
like that and say that an ARIN holder with just a /22 can't lease it outside
North America, I will roll my eyes.


-----Original Message-----
From: LACNOG <lacnog-bounces en lacnic.net> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2022 4:49 PM
To: Latin America and Caribbean Region Network Operators Group
<lacnog en lacnic.net>
Subject: Re: [lacnog]
        Subasignación de prefijos a
otro ASN y el tema con los RoA

I'll let John Curran reconcile some of what he said about ARIN in different
fora, but let me remind you that you are saying that about all 3 pre-ICP-2
RIRs: RIPE, ARIN and APNIC. And only one of them not being true breaks your
point, or even just one allocation not being able to lease breaks it... as I
repeated a number of times, each block will have its own ok/not-ok result,
and that uncertainty is part of the leasing process.

No concession, mate.


Rubens

On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 6:27 PM Mike Burns <mike en iptrading.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Rubens,
> " As far as I now, unfortunately in ARIN there is not currently 
> impediment to lease ARIN non-legacy blocks."
> Fernando just acknowledged that renting ARIN RSA space is not a 
> problem, yet you persist in your delusions.
>
> Sounds like you're unwilling to share your investigation results.
> If you are going to complain about them why not make them public?
>
> I think you should concede on the legacy issue. You lost.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LACNOG <lacnog-bounces en lacnic.net> On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2022 4:09 PM
> To: Latin America and Caribbean Region Network Operators Group 
> <lacnog en lacnic.net>
> Subject: Re: [lacnog]
>         Subasignación de 
> prefijos a otro ASN y el tema con los RoA
>
> > Your pet-project investigations sound like a good idea.
> > Will you please reveal the results of your investigations here for 
> > others to learn from?
>
> Actually, the main focus is to file complaints with the respective 
> RIRs for each one found to be suspicious, knowing that most of the 
> time only the RIR will have all the necessary information to make a
determination.
>
>
> > Of course we know that many cloud providers advertise blocks 
> > belonging to their clients, not themselves, and they advertise them 
> > under the cloud provider's ASN.  AWS, Cogent, Oracle, Vultr, etc. 
> > Not sure how you would differentiate those from leases, but with 
> > enough investigation you are sure to find smaller, non-cloud 
> > provider ASNs advertising space belonging to others.
>
> Actually, the first false positive that came to mind was DDoS 
> mitigation services.
> Most of them have a bad habit of advertising their customer prefixes 
> originating in their ASN.
> I saw one case of a cloud provider advertising a client address space 
> once, and they changed that quickly when they knew they were in 
> violation of their allocation.
>
> > If you would agree to non-disclosure I will share an ARIN non-legacy 
> > block being leased by a Latin American client off list as I believe 
> > I can acquire their permission. They know they are breaking no rules 
> > leasing ARIN RSA space.
>
> A non-disclosure could put me in a situation of malfeasance if I bump 
> into something wrong or possibly wrong and then fail to report or
investigate it.
> So thanks, but no, thanks.
>
> > You still say non-legacy space is not safely leasable, but you can't 
> > point
>
> No, I say that it is not safely leasable wholesale. Every block will 
> have a different safety profile.
>
> > to any policy or RSA language that prevents RSA addresses from being
> leased.
>
> Because leasing is not the issue, how it is used is the issue. For 
> instance, by leasing to a network that has not been verified by the 
> RIR to have real need is now using those resources, now there is no 
> verification of such need.
>
>
> > Only in LACNIC and AFRINIC is there a risk, not that I've ever heard 
> > of LACNIC addresses revoked for usage differing from the original 
> > justification. Maybe you have?
>
> I can only talk about generics here that most compliance processes of 
> ICANN, RIRs and NIRs provide opportunities for fixing a breach of 
> contract before it goes public.  Saying more than that would violate
professional duty.
>
> > If what you say is true (that non-legacy space can't be leased), 
> > where is it in the RSA or the NRPM of ARIN, RIPE, or APNIC?
>
> Again, this will be different block by block and the point is not the 
> lease, but the subsequent usage by the lessee.
> It is also dependent on the policy manual and RSA in force at time of 
> allocation.
>
>
> Rubens
> _______________________________________________
> LACNOG mailing list
> LACNOG en lacnic.net
> https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog
> Cancelar suscripcion: https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog
>
> _______________________________________________
> LACNOG mailing list
> LACNOG en lacnic.net
> https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog
> Cancelar suscripcion: https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog
_______________________________________________
LACNOG mailing list
LACNOG en lacnic.net
https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog
Cancelar suscripcion: https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog