[lacnog] Fwd: [ripe-list] The Future of Discussion Lists

Carlos Marcelo Martinez Cagnazzo carlosm3011 en gmail.com
Lun Mayo 29 08:51:58 -03 2023

<div dir="auto"> El problema de la concentración de email en dos o tres grandes es real. Se aplican y sobre todo se cambian políticas antispam sin previo aviso, no existen mecanismos razonables de escalamiento de tickets, etc. <div style=""><br style=""></div><div style="">Lo digo con conocimiento por haberlo sufrido en LACNIC fuertemente en lo que va de este año. </div><div style=""><br style=""></div><div style="">Me pregunto que tan cerca estamos de reinventar NNTP ;-)</div><div style=""><br style=""></div><div style="">/Carlos<br style=""><br style=""><div id="cm_footer" class="cm_footer" style=""><div id="cm_sent_from" style="">via <a href="https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=10.0.62&pv=16.4.1&source=email_footer_2" style="">Newton Mail</a></div></div><br style=""><div id="cm_replymail_content_wrap" style=""><div class="cm_replymail_content_1685360966_wrapper" style="">On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 12:20,             Fernando Gont <<a href="mailto:fgont en si6networks.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">fgont en si6networks.com</a>> wrote:<br style=""><div id="cm_replymail_content_1685360966" style="overflow: visible;"><blockquote style="margin: 0px; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(214, 214, 214); padding-left: 10px;"><br style="">Tan dificil es allow-list'ear? :-)<br style=""><br style="">Por otro lado, hay soporte para reescribir los headers en el software <br style="">the ML, como ser mailman.<br style=""><br style="">No veo el armageddon...   :-)<br style=""><br style=""><br style="">On 26/5/23 13:53, Carlos Marcelo Martinez Cagnazzo wrote:<br style="">> Se que es una discusion que a varios en la lista les va a interesar.<br style="">> <br style="">> /Carlos<br style="">> <br style="">> via Newton Mail <br style="">> <<a href="https://cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=10.0.62&pv=16.4.1&source=email_footer_2" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">cloudmagic.com/k/d/mailapp?ct=pi&cv=10.0.62&pv=16.4.1&source=email_footer_2</a>><br style="">> <br style="">> ------Forwarded message------<br style="">> From: Leo Vegoda <<a href="mailto:leo en vegoda.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">leo en vegoda.org</a> <<a href="mailto:leo en vegoda.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">leo en vegoda.org</a>>><br style="">> Date: Fri, May 26, 2023 at 4:41<br style="">> Subject: [ripe-list] The Future of Discussion Lists<br style="">> To: <a href="mailto:ripe-list en ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">ripe-list en ripe.net</a> <<a href="mailto:ripe-list en ripe.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">ripe-list en ripe.net</a>><br style="">> <br style="">> <br style="">> <br style="">> Dear RIPE community,<br style="">> <br style="">> At yesterday’s community plenary I asked whether mailing lists are<br style="">> sustainable as our main communication channel. For those who were not<br style="">> able to attend, the slide and a recording are available here:<br style="">> <br style="">> - <br style="">> <a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810384-36678618-430c-d099-0cce-5183ca44bd8e/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=http://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-RIPE-86.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-RIPE-86.pdf</a> <<a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810405-bb949a81-69c5-97db-f616-6d0c5abfbfa9/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=https://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-RIPE-86.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://ripe86.ripe.net/wp-content/uploads/presentations/12-Mailing-Lists-RIPE-86.pdf</a>><br style="">> - <a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810416-3ba5fb9b-d473-60db-be95-58475cca29db/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=http://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115</a> <br style="">> <<a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810427-768ab953-5046-be1d-e397-35909f0d4e79/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://ripe86.ripe.net/archives/video/1115</a>><br style="">> <br style="">> I am obviously concerned that discussion lists might not serve us with<br style="">> fidelity in the future. If that is the case, I want us to manage any<br style="">> change we need to make. We should not be bounced into rapid change.<br style="">> <br style="">> There was more discussion than I expected. I’m sending this message to<br style="">> ask the questions:<br style="">> <br style="">> - Am I wrong? Are e-mail discussion lists a sustainable communication<br style="">> channel for the foreseeable future?<br style="">> - Are e-mail discussion lists an acceptable technology to people<br style="">> joining the industry?<br style="">> <br style="">> The text below is similar to something I shared with the WG Chairs<br style="">> several months ago.<br style="">> <br style="">> Kind regards,.<br style="">> <br style="">> Leo<br style="">> <br style="">> ripe-781 describes four fundamental principles supporting our policy<br style="">> development process. The first two principles are openness and<br style="">> transparency.<br style="">> <br style="">> Changes in the treatment of e-mail by large industry players presents<br style="">> a challenge to these two principles.<br style="">> <br style="">> In 1992, when ripe-001 was published, anyone could run e-mail services<br style="">> on any Internet infrastructure they could use. It is now far more<br style="">> difficult to run e-mail services. Technology developments, like DMARC,<br style="">> have made discussion mailing lists less effective.<br style="">> <br style="">> Validation failures increase the probability of messages being treated<br style="">> as junk. Subscribers to RIPE's discussion lists will miss messages<br style="">> when their e-mail services provider treats them as junk.<br style="">> <br style="">> When a legitimate message to a RIPE discussion list is treated as junk<br style="">> the sender's voice has been moderated by a third-party mail provider.<br style="">> RIPE's transparency is diminished when its discussion lists are<br style="">> subjected to gatekeeping by third-party mail providers.<br style="">> <br style="">> In 1992, e-mail was an improvement to postal services and telephony<br style="">> protocols. In 2023, we have a wide choice of communication protocols<br style="">> and platforms.<br style="">> <br style="">> I believe that new protocols and platforms are preferred over e-mail<br style="">> by potential participants in RIPE at the start of their careers. We<br style="">> want these people to take part in RIPE. They are the future of<br style="">> coordination for the operators of IP networks in Europe and the rest<br style="">> of the world.<br style="">> <br style="">> We must offer all current and potential participants in RIPE an<br style="">> effective set of tools. Any tools we use must support the principles<br style="">> of openness and transparency.<br style="">> <br style="">> An ideal set of tools might have features like this:<br style="">> <br style="">> 1. An open protocol available for implementation by anyone.<br style="">> 2. Free(ly available) software implementations for popular operating<br style="">> systems (Android, iOS, Linux, macOS, and Windows).<br style="">> 3. Allows a user to choose to have activity pushed to them. They must<br style="">> not be forced to maintain a login to be informed of activity they are<br style="">> interested in.<br style="">> 4. A public archive that cannot be retrospectively edited (barring<br style="">> exceptional situations).<br style="">> <br style="">> While the technology choices need to support the principles of<br style="">> openness and transparency, they do not need to do all the work.<br style="">> Announcements, blog posts, and other kinds of communications can be<br style="">> built into our processes.<br style="">> <br style="">> The combination of technology and process can make the whole more effective.<br style="">> <br style="">> -- <br style="">> <br style="">> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or <br style="">> change your subscription options, please visit: <br style="">> <a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810435-41ce3dc6-7d2f-2a1e-db77-b510bea3a6dc/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=http://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list</a> <br style="">> <<a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810446-8940317c-12b3-917f-0e16-8d4bb9614e01/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-list</a>><br style="">> <br style="">> _______________________________________________<br style="">> LACNOG mailing list<br style="">> <a href="mailto:LACNOG en lacnic.net" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">LACNOG en lacnic.net</a><br style="">> <a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810454-e77b9dd2-9bf2-770d-e7b0-fb20a8446a61/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">mail.lacnic.net/mailman/listinfo/lacnog</a><br style="">> Cancelar suscripcion: <a href="https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/link-track/1.0/1685361134810466-e4f72876-0c6b-73f3-024d-2453627a6325/1685361118/96f2d3060286ecbab9150cfe7cb38c63/d1f88f53468aaeec4f93b9d923605a94/c685fcd416a89ab357b7e28c4a5ee604?redirect_uri=https://mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">mail.lacnic.net/mailman/options/lacnog</a><br style=""><br style="">-- <br style="">Fernando Gont<br style="">SI6 Networks<br style="">e-mail: <a href="mailto:fgont en si6networks.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">fgont en si6networks.com</a><br style="">PGP Fingerprint: F242 FF0E A804 AF81 EB10 2F07 7CA1 321D 663B B494<br style=""></blockquote></div></div>            </div>            </div></div>
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