[LACNIC/Politicas] Los secuestros BGP constituyen una violación de las políticas - LAC-2019-5

Thu Apr 11 13:27:53 -03 2019

Hi Mike,

I guess is getting confusing special not being in English, sorry about that. First issue, we mixed 2 threads ... I tried to split in the previous email.

We may agree in withdrawing the proposal, but we first must clarify why is not appropriate to include in the policy manual an alternative simple text that explicitly say that:

Resources allocated to a member can't be used by another without the explicit consent of the original resource-holder.

Some people said "this is obvious" not need to say in the manual, but if "obvious" is the same for everyone, there are many sentences and text in the manual that will not be needed.

I don't think that's comparable to the AfriNIC anti-shutdown discussion at all, because it looks obvious to the participants that you should use your own resources and not the other's, so what is the harm to state that, just in case is not "obvious the same way for all"?

In the PDP when you oppose to something, must explain why "I don't like it" "I don't agree (w/o a valid reason)", etc., is not acceptable as a way to oppose. This has even been defended by some of the folks that now oppose without a good explanation.

Regards,
Jordi

El 11/4/19 18:19, "Politicas en nombre de Mike Burns" <politicas-bounces at lacnic.net en nombre de mike at iptrading.com> escribió:

    This discussion reminds me of the AFRINIC "Anti-shutdown" proposal of 2017.
    That proposal also asked an RIR to define good and bad behavior, and deal with it in policy.
    In that case it was the decision of an African country to shutdown Internet access.
    In this LACNIC case, it is about prefix hijacking.

    In the AFRINIC case, the policy was eventually withdrawn.
    I believe this is because members realized that RIRs are not the appropriate place to address these sorts of issues.

    I think that this is also the case with the LACNIC policy under discussion, and I add my voice to those who are obviously against route hijacking, but who are against this policy.

    Regards,
    Mike Burns

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Politicas <politicas-bounces at lacnic.net> On Behalf Of Alejandro Guzman
    Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 11:59 AM
    To: Lista para discusion de politicas de la comunidad de LACNIC <politicas at lacnic.net>
    Subject: Re: [LACNIC/Politicas] Los secuestros BGP constituyen una violación de las políticas - LAC-2019-5

    Jordi el que varios no estemos de acuerdo con esta política no significa que hay que irse a los extremos que dices.

    El jue., 11 de abril de 2019 11:52 a. m., JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Politicas <politicas at lacnic.net> escribió:

    > Comprendido, entonces tendremos que revisar todos los puntos del 
    > manual de políticas que hace los mismo en otros aspectos.
    >
    >
    >
    > No podemos tener criterios diferentes para diferentes textos del manual.
    >
    >
    >
    > ¡Esto es tabú y de esto no hablamos!
    >
    >
    > Saludos,
    >
    > Jordi
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > El 11/4/19 17:46, "Arturo Servin" <arturo.servin at gmail.com> escribió:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 4:33 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Politicas < 
    > politicas at lacnic.net> wrote:
    >
    > RIR y comunidad no es lo mismo.
    >
    >
    >
    > No, no son lo mismo.
    >
    >
    >
    > El RIR opera bajo los principios (politicas) que define la comunidad.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Insisto, debemos explicar porque hay cosas que creemos que en el 
    > manual se deben hacer mas explicitas, para evitar diferentes puntos de 
    > vista, y lo que es obvio para unos u otros, y en cambio estamos en 
    > contra de poner en el manual, que es para la comunidad, algo con lo 
    > que parece que todos estamos de acuerdo.
    >
    >
    >
    > Algunos creemos que hay cosas que no se deben de explicar, como que es 
    > bueno y que es mal uso de un recurso.
    >
    >
    >
    > Eso lo debe definir otra comunidad, la de NOGs, de estandares 
    > tecnicos, etc. No la comunidad del RIR.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > No lo veo y menos cuando hay una ristra de +1 afirmando que estamos de 
    > acuerdo …
    >
    >
    >
    > De acuerdo con:
    >
    >
    >
    > Que el RIR no es el lugar para definir que es bueno o malo.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Alguien puede argumentar que daño se produce al RIR o a la comunidad 
    > explicitando algo obvio?
    >
    >
    >
    > Que no es el papel del RIR!!!
    >
    >
    >
    > Saludos
    >
    > as
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.